HBRU's "I think there's going to be a PS4 Pro2" thread *spawn

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by HBRU, Apr 17, 2018.

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  1. HBRU

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    PS5 with ZEN 5 ?!?... 2022/2023



    In 2019 there is room for a Pro2 imho. Vega based 8 TF... GDDR6 on a 256 bit bus. Maybe CCX as CPU so they can tell also that future PS5 back compatibility is only with PRO2 patched games... (so producer are free to release instead a PS5 remastered)
     
  2. Tkumpathenurpahl

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    Why would a Pro2 be more desirable than just calling it a PS5 and setting it as the baseline for a new generation?

    Even if it's fairly underpowered at ~8TF, it would come equipped with Zen cores and be head and shoulders above anything the Pro can do, much less the base PS4. Heck, with an 8.4TF GPU and an 8 core Zen clocked at 3.2GHz, it could provide a VR headset with a PS4Pro image, per eye, at 120fps. In my opinion, that alone is feature enough to warrant setting it as a new baseline.

    With full backwards compatibility, it would functionally be a Pro2 anyway, but give devs the flexibility to either not bother with the base PS4, or include features not present in the PS4 version.

    I believe that a Pro revision will happen this year or next, and may even have an XBoxOne to XBoxOneS degree of performance improvement, but that's all.
     
  3. HBRU

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    yes, having the CCX or whatever not Jaguar... Then is not a PRO2... you are right
     
  4. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    The primary reason to make a next gen is to ditch the ps4/pro binary compatibility requirement. It is not allowed, and will never be allowed, to make a game that works on Pro but not on the launch PS4. So a Pro2 would be a big repeat of they work that happens with the Pro, to ensure every existing titles works, then try to get devs to make patches for free, and it would still need all games to be binary (and disc) compatible across all three models. It won't have enough time to get a big enough library of games exploiting it's power balance until PS5 comes out. It would be a very short term luxury with questionable long term games support.

    Even a low balled 8TF PS5 is a very different situation from an 8TF three-quarter-gen refresh. Devs can transiton to cross-gen development, make ps5-only games where the engine needs that much power, the gameplay needs that much cpu, and the disc size can be 100GB or more. A few years later when they launch the ps5 pro, they do the same mandatory compatibility.
     
  5. HBRU

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    2019 8TF ps5 (Vega), ps5pro 2022-2023... This last must be a monstre over 20 TF becouse then I see little silicon advancements so it must be very long lasting

    how much more transistors & frequency would be needed to let run a game like the new GOW at a STABLE 4KCB@60 fps ? Bandwidth, GPU, Jaguars clock.... Cooling system ?!? If they can get this on a Ps4 PRO2 ----at a rasonable price---- the PRO2 is something that can be attractive... Or another way: How much Jaguars are different from the zen CCX that are proposed ?!? Same code is possibile with little adjustments ?!? In that case Ps5 is coming instead

    new Nvidia GTX1180, 400 mm2 die... 13 TF on a 256 bit bus, 1.6 ghz, 8 or 16 giga GDDR6... It seems around 800 euros... At 12nm 170/200 watts
     
    #5 HBRU, Apr 18, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2018
  6. ToTTenTranz

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    This isn't written in stone.
    I would see no problem if a dev/publisher decided to launch a PS5 game that said "also runs on PS4 Pro" in little characters at the bottom of the blu-ray case. I don't see why Sony wouldn't allow it, either.

    A 10-12 TFLOPs PS5 would be close to the PS4-> PS4 Pro jump, so except for RAM limitations I could see the Pro running at 1080-1200p what the PS5 runs at 1800-2160p.
    Especially if the PS5 comes with a x86 CPU and GFX9 GPU, which the PS4 Pro's is already very close to.


    This could even be interesting for the publishers to launch games for the new platform, because AAA games will always suffer from low sales during the release window due to a small userbase.
    Launching some of the first generation of PS5 games with compatibility with the PS4 Pro could be a good business decision.


    This wouldn't be unprecedented, either. About 1/3rd of the GameBoy Color games were backwards-compatible with the original GameBoy, and the former had a 2x higher clocked CPU, 2x more VRAM and 4x more RAM.
     
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  7. liolio

    liolio Aquoiboniste
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    There are no reason to let games runs on the PS4 Pro only. Whereas the PS4 pro is an incremental jump and Sony following system has to raise above it (wrt perfs), the basic sku remains the PS4 in every way especially users base, it is pretty much the key stone of the environment. That makes another PS4 SKU extremely unlikely if not bothering, SOny has to move forward freed from the lowest common denominator that is the PS4.
     
  8. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    Plans can change, but Sony's sales pitch was clear from the start. Pro exists within the same life span. It's MS who launched with a bunch of vague plans of "no more generations", which became the source for speculating they will do rolling generations with mid-gen.

    https://www.psxhax.com/threads/sony-ceo-shawn-layden-confirms-playstation-5-ps5-will-be-coming.2428

    Golem.de: When will the first game, which runs on the PS4 Pro - but no longer on a PlayStation 4?

    Shawn Layden: That will never happen!

    Golem.de: Is the Pro not the entry into the business model, that like evolution of hardware takes place as with smartphones - instead of every few years a whole new generation to build up?

    Layden: With the PlayStation 4 Pro we have for the first time implemented this kind of innovation within the life cycle of a console. The pro is really only to offer advantages such as 4K resolutions and HMD for players who can and want to use that. Add to this a more stable image rate and larger hard disk space. But who has a standard PS4 has no real disadvantages. Each of our games will continue to run on the classic PS4 and possibly slightly better on the Pro.

    Golem.de: This means that you are more likely to rely on a real PlayStation 5 - whenever that will be?

    Layden: Yes. It will probably be some time.
     
  9. mpg1

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    Part of me just wants to see them release another incremental design over X1X without the high clocks/extra work on cooling as soon as 7nm is ready just to see how quickly and cost effective it could be.

    Jaguar @2.5-2.6GHz
    64CU GPU @1Ghz
    16GB GDDR5/X

    2019 @ $399
     
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  10. ToTTenTranz

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    Well they don't ask when the first game that runs on the Pro and the PS5 - but no longer on a PS4 - will release...
     
  11. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    Which would have been a subset question.

    For example: they don't ask when the first game that runs on the Pro and contains ponies - but no longer on a PS4 - will release...

    The lack of ponies in the original question doesn't open any more possibilities.
     
    #11 MrFox, Apr 18, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
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  12. ToTTenTranz

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    I really just think the question was about Sony allowing the release of Pro-exclusive games, to which Sony was always very clear that PS4 games would always work on all PS4 consoles.

    Allowing the release of PS5 titles that happen to be backwards-compatible with the Pro is a very different move. IMO, there would hardly be any problem for allowing a certain number of PS5 titles to run on the Pro, or even on the three consoles (e.g. Singstar, japanese visual novels, Telltale games...).
    Sure, Sony can be stiff about it, but the question is should they?
     
  13. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    The context was about the smartphone model, where devices are dropped in a way that overlaps. The question was about "when" there would be games which still work on pro but no longer on ps4. It's about whether there is an eventual cut off point to their promise of equal treatment of both skus. I don't see how Never can be interpreted any differently.

    Maybe they will change that plan, but I think it would be marketing suicide, which sony have been avoiding since 2013 :lol:
     
  14. Tkumpathenurpahl

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    I think they should be stiff about it. The PS4 and Pro have such similar performance that releasing on the Pro shouldn't preclude the base model from receiving content.

    If anything, a more lax approach to framerates and resolution on the base model seems most likely. So the same game releases across platforms as:

    PS5: 4K60 (including pseudo 4K)
    PS4Pro: 1080p-1440p at a stable 30fps
    PS4: 720p-900p at an occasionally unstable 30fps

    I think a factor in limiting the Pro to a standard Blu-ray drive was to avoid this temptation: sell the cost savings of the Pro to the same executives who would be willing to cut off owners of the base model.
     
  15. Shifty Geezer

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    A game that runs on PS5 and PS4Pro but not on PS4 is a game that runs on PS4Pro but not PS4, violating Layden's assertion that would never happen.
     
  16. Tkumpathenurpahl

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    Could a triple layer BR be used in a way that the PS4/Pro could read two layers, and the PS5 reads the third and fourth?
     
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  17. ToTTenTranz

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    That's the rigid approach to the matter.
    It may or may not be Sony's.


    Maybe not, but does it matter?
    If the PS5 comes with a UHD bluray drive, does it mean all PS5 games must come in a 3-layer disc?
     
  18. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    "It will never happen!" doesn't sound like a flexible position on the subject. :runaway:

    Cerny and Yoshida repeated similar things in many interviews and presentations.
     
  19. Shifty Geezer

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    That would make them liars. The language is unambiguous here. You can't add a caveat after-the-fact. That's like a politician promising, "We won't raise income tax," and then raising income tax and fuel duties and then saying, "We didn't raise income tax; we raised income tax and fuel duties."
     
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  20. ToTTenTranz

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    Like that time when Microsoft said Kinect was here to stay? And the XBone would require always-on Internet and retail games couldn't be re-sold/borrowed?
    Like when EA said they weren't taking pay2win lootboxes away from Battlefront II because they believed that was best for the gamers who had busy lives and couldn't spend lots of time grinding their way up?

    Perhaps the audience is rather lenient when the "lie" is made in favor of the consumer, or doesn't harm the consumer and favors the developers who are making titles for the PS5's release window and could use the extra userbase.

    I don't think for one second that Sony is going to make the decision of letting publishers/devs add PS4 Pro support for 1st-gen titles based on one sentence made during an interview to a german publication.

    You're free to believe they are, though. That's completely fine.
     
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