Handheld Forum Moderation / Signal-to-Noise

Discussion in 'Site Feedback' started by Arun, Mar 9, 2013.

  1. Arun

    Arun Unknown.
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    EDIT: Moved this discussion here from the Galaxy S thread. I don't think there's a lot to add (for now?) but if anyone has feedback to give about whether we should do stricter moderation in the handheld forum then this is the place to give it.


    While I agree it's best to ignore someone you can't stand rather than start a flamewar, I do think french toast isn't sufficiently skeptical of information he finds on the web, and regularly repeats "facts" without question and without sufficient uncertainty. It's especially noticeable because he posts a lot so it can derail threads as everyone starts arguing with him. In theory someone who posts a lot of good questions can actually improve signal-to-noise even if he contributes no answers himself, but that's not working here...

    As Nebuchadnezzar said, you need to know a lot of background for the topic so you can judge for yourself if some information is correct. It's perfectly fine to talk about topics you don't know everything about, or even ones where you have a lot more questions than answers - there would be zero discussion in these forums if we didn't encourage laymen - but then you should be humble about it, try to learn and not claim opinions or weakly sourced information as fact.

    That is completely and utterly wrong and that attitude is very problematic. You say that you used "credible links" - yes, your sources in this thread do seem fairly good on first glance, but in reality their information is either incomplete or completely wrong, and Nebuchadnezzar/Ailuros are making good points in correcting some of the claims in your links. And while they do repeat some of the facts in your post (necessary to make a cohesive argument), they do add new and valuable information.

    Here's some of the new information in their posts:
    - Colour inaccuracies are a firmware/software issue and not fundamental to AMOLED; they can be fully calibrated in third-party Android kernels, as in Nebuchadnezzar's very own kernel (see his link - AndreiLux is his nickname on xda).
    - While PPI at a given resolution is a mathematically valid metric, it is not a useful metric as it's not how manufacturers think about it. The PPI itself is the manufacturing constraint and screen size is simply a question of design/cost.
    - While some obscure CRTs may have used S-Stripe in the past, it was not the standard pattern at all and RGB stripe was most common (see Ailuros' pictures) which contradicts what you seem to have implied in your post.
    - Nouvoyance's marketing claims about power/brightness are strictly related to RGBW which has never been found in any consumer product anywhere. There is no power/brightness advantage for any current or rumoured PenTile product - it's marketing bullshit. This is valuable information that directly contradicts what you said.

    Now to be fair, what you said about CRTs and S-Stripe was exactly what was said by the OLED Association, which definitely seemed like a reliable source, so it's slightly unfair to blame you for it. However their wording was vague, and the information was very incomplete, so the additional data by Ailuros/Nebu is valuable.

    So yeah, I have no idea what you mean in your quote above. They are definitely not just recycling what you said, and I learned more from their posts than yours. As I said, I personally don't have a big problem with you, but I can definitely understand why others might. I think it would be good if you tried spending more time on each of your posts, read the entire preview before posting, and check if there's anything you claim that you should verify first (or be less certain about). If you don't have sufficient background in a subject, you seriously need to be more humble about it, give fewer incomplete answers and ask more questions instead... :)

    I'm posting this here so that it's clearly visible to everyone involved, but if we want to discuss this any further, I'll move it to Site Feedback or we can keep it in PMs.
     
  2. french toast

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    As you have made your opinion public..and lets be honest the this whole saga has been I will add my last bit.

    Yes I can see where in the past I have perhaps picked wrong moments to enter a discussion or sometimes posted to often..sometimes not adding to the discussion enough....so to be fair there is merit to those points...something I am paying more attention to...and will rectify.

    This however was different, ailiros contributed nothing in several of his posts.. (one has been deleted I see) and just piss takes and ridicules...that adds nothing to any discussion regardless of what I said..and actually breaks the forum rules..but alas..that doesnt matter :).

    The other member...whilst having some merit..perhaps (its hard to argue when you have several other members backing him up) he went about his point in completely the wrong way.....the above discussion really was him just picking fault and personal attacks.. and if you look what I was saying was not wrong..I also had good links one of which was his own!!..
    ...some comments have been quite frankly offensive and ridiculous. ..ie I have contributed nothing to the forum at all in any thread other than spam...I mean come on thats crap.

    There is two issues then...1 my posting. ..fair enough.
    2. these two experienced members conduct which has gone to far IMO...I dont expect any allies here judging by the fact one has been here 12 years...but seriously I expected a tad more maturity...today there was nothing wrong in what I said none.

    So in future then IF I do post again I will pay more attention to what I post and when I post....but lets keep any personal stuff to pms and moderators.

    Cheers.
     
  3. Arun

    Arun Unknown.
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    First: I'll leave this in this thread for a short time, then move the posts to Site Feedback.

    Nice, that's a good attitude to have :)

    The one that was deleted by willard was pure noise, and I did see a post a few days ago which was unnecessarily rude to you (can't find the link right now). The one with the two image links was actually very relevant as it showed how typical CRTs are RGB stripes and not S-Stripes, but it could have been said in a way that was both easier to understand and less provocative...

    Well Ailuros certainly makes good contributions to many discussions, but I agree he's helped derail threads by arguing about you specifically, and that's not acceptable. But I think it's fair to say we've been very hands-off in moderating the handheld forum; certainly if this was the console forums, there would have been some temp-bans issued in the last week... Personally I don't think this approach is necessary given the much lower level of activity, but maybe people disagree and it should then be considered...

    I'm not sure there's any problem with picking faults as long as it's constructive, which it mostly was, one case where it seemed clearly excessive was on the subject of S-Stripe and CRTs where there seems to have been a misunderstanding in what you claimed and an overreaction...

    Also I agree some of the negative personal comments about you are not appropriate at all, it's fine to ask someone to increase his signal-to-noise ratio, it's quite another to claim he's a worthless idiot.

    Well on the CRT thing, as I said the original article was vague, and it's not clear what you meant by saying it's not a new idea (is that good in that it's tested, or bad in that it's not innovative?). Strictly speaking the article is correct but it's also very misleading because you'd think all/most CRTs used S-Stripe when actually it was even more of a niche technology back then. So even though your source seemed reliable, it was actually misleading - but it's not fair to blame you for that.

    I'm not sure if you're still defending that article in the sense you think the important part is it existed at all (i.e. you don't care it wasn't used in most CRTs, only that it's not a new technology) or because you don't realise that the article is indeed misleading - I must admit Ailuros/Nebu could have been clearer on what the problem is...

    Heh I don't think it's a question of being "allied" with anyone. I agree some of their comments are personal attacks and have no place on the forums. It's not because I agree with many of their technical points that I agree with their behaviour.

    Well, it didn't go as far in terms of personally attacking someone, but I do see a problem with it - see the bit I quoted in my previous post about you claiming there was nothing valuable in their posts, and my reply listing the new information they posted and you ignored.

    I think the problem is they feel you're ignoring some of their points (which I think you definitely are in some cases - although maybe a big part of it is you misunderstand what they're trying to say, I doubt you're ignoring anything on purpose) and so they get frustrated because they figure there's no point continuing the conversation if you won't listen. I can understand that, but that's not an excuse for personal attacks.
     
  4. french toast

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    Ok then I accept mistakes have been made on my part and I will make sure I only partake in discussions I add value to.

    This has clearly got out of hand so maturity is needed here.

    Sorted. :).
     
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