Half-Life 2 bundled with R360?

[Joe DeFuria]

IMO, this sucks, if true.

Well, it's not true.

You can subscribe to steam for $10/month...which IIRC gets you access to EVERY GAME and all content that ever comes out over steam. Not just Half-life2.

TF2 and CounterStrike will be new games for example, that you can purchase separately once they are released in stores. Or, if you have a monthly subscription to steam, you'll automatically get access to them once they are out.

I don't see anything wrong with the steam model itself. The potential issues, IMO, are going to be technical....(supplying necessary server and bandwidth capacity for the peak downloading times, like when new games or content is released.)

 

[cthellis42]

I wonder if you can just sign up right before a game gets release over Steam and cancel afterwards, so you're only ever paying $10 for them.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I wonder if you can just sign up right before a game gets release over Steam and cancel afterwards, so you're only ever paying $10 for them.

I was wondering that myself. Or how about, 3 years from now, with presumably lots of content on Steam, you sign up, download everything, an then cancel. That's $10 for All!

I don't know how they plan to control sign-ups / cancellations, but I have to believe they have some sort of control on it. It may be something like: if you download a game based on the monthly access fee, you can only play the games while you still have the account. That sounds pretty drastic though.

They could do something like requiring a minimum subscription length.

 

[digitalwanderer]

I wonder if you can just sign up right before a game gets release over Steam and cancel afterwards, so you're only ever paying $10 for them.

I have a bad feeling Valve is going to shoot themselves in the foot with this one the same way Id did with their infamous "Quake demo disk" which you could call up a number and unlock the entire Id library up to that point.

It was a great model, 'cept when someone put out a crack program a week later that allowed you to generate your own key to unlock everything...then they were selling a $10 CD that basically had the complete version of every game they had on it.

I think the same will happen with the Steam release, I think someone will crack it and spread it.

 

[Mark0]

I don't see anything wrong with the steam model itself. The potential issues, IMO, are going to be technical....(supplying necessary server and bandwidth capacity for the peak downloading times, like when new games or content is released.)

May be they will use some sort of file swarming delivery method, like Bittorrent...

Bye!

 

[digitalwanderer]

I don't see anything wrong with the steam model itself. The potential issues, IMO, are going to be technical....(supplying necessary server and bandwidth capacity for the peak downloading times, like when new games or content is released.)

May be they will use some sort of file swarming delivery method, like Bittorrent...

I have no doubt Bittorrent will be used to spread HL2....

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

I wonder if you can just sign up right before a game gets release over Steam and cancel afterwards, so you're only ever paying $10 for them.

They've already said you can't - in effect there will minimum contract which will be equivalent to buying the boxed game, in order to stop exactly this.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

I don't see anything wrong with the steam model itself. The potential issues, IMO, are going to be technical....(supplying necessary server and bandwidth capacity for the peak downloading times, like when new games or content is released.)

May be they will use some sort of file swarming delivery method, like Bittorrent...

Bye!

I thought Steam was a P2P type app - which of course worries me in terms of bandwidth usage and storage space. I sure don't want my PC serving gigs of bandwidth to other Valve customers for some indeterminate amount of time in order make Valve more money - and I'm sure my ISP would not be too happy about it either.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

They've already said you can't - in effect there will minimum contract which will be equivalent to buying the boxed game, in order to stop exactly this.

Source?

The reason why I question this, is consider 2 years from now:

Half-Life2 - $50
Team Fortress - $50
Counter Strike - $30
Half-Life2 Expansion Pack 1 - $25
Half-Life2 Expansion Pack 2 - $25

If I want to "subscribe" to Steam 2 years from now, I'll have to shell commit to $180 worth of subscription time? And it just gets worse as time goes on?

Why not just buy all the games off the shelf then?

I think subsciptions are more likely to be like rent. You can only play the games that you acquired via subscription, for as long as you are a subscriber.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

I wonder if you can just sign up right before a game gets release over Steam and cancel afterwards, so you're only ever paying $10 for them.

I have a bad feeling Valve is going to shoot themselves in the foot with this one the same way Id did with their infamous "Quake demo disk" which you could call up a number and unlock the entire Id library up to that point.

It was a great model, 'cept when someone put out a crack program a week later that allowed you to generate your own key to unlock everything...then they were selling a $10 CD that basically had the complete version of every game they had on it.

I think the same will happen with the Steam release, I think someone will crack it and spread it.

Steam is a great experiment that people have been talking about for years - a way of delivering games directly to your PC. For the segment of the market that has broadband, it could potentially mean the end of distributers, publisher and retailers, with all the money going direct to the developer, who can make more profit and charge less to the customer (or offer "added value"). It means no pressing of CDs or packaging, no storage in warehouses, no shipping, no distribution, no returns, which all adds up to more cash in Valve's pocket. In addition, it creates a continuous income stream that has not been seen outside of pay-to-play MMORPG type games.

It's a risky venture to be in the vanguard of, but with a big title like HL2 that will have loads of mods and quite a long life, in addition to being used as an engine for other games, it seems like the huge potential prize is worth taking that risk for.

If you are a broadband user who has experience of P2P apps or large updates for online games, it could be very attractive. If there is sufficient extra content that you would want anyway, if you are going to play the game and it's variations with as much dedication as a Counterstrike player, the price could make econmic sense. I think Valve need to allow people to download the game, install it and then archive it off onto CD so that in the event of a reinstall, you only need re-download the latest update, but otherwise completely online distribution could be done, much in the same way as a game like Darkspace from Palestar.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

They've already said you can't - in effect there will minimum contract which will be equivalent to buying the boxed game, in order to stop exactly this.

Source?

I really tried to find the link for you, but I couldn't It was definatly one of the numerous Gabe Newell/HL2 interviews floating around the net recently, the one where he describes the various packaging.

Don't you think that Valve will have thought of the same thing that everyone else thought of? Or do you think they'll let someone subscribe for $10, download a $50 game and then cancel their subscription?

The reason why I question this, is consider 2 years from now:

Half-Life2 - $50
Team Fortress - $50
Counter Strike - $30
Half-Life2 Expansion Pack 1 - $25
Half-Life2 Expansion Pack 2 - $25

If I want to "subscribe" to Steam 2 years from now, I'll have to shell commit to $180 worth of subscription time? And it just gets worse as time goes on?

Why not just buy all the games off the shelf then?

If that's going to be the prices, and that how the economics work out, then yes, it's better for the customer to buy everything off the shelf and forget Steam. Obviously, if more content comes out, the balance shifts the other way, depending on how long you subscribe.

My understanding of the various packages are this (which is taken from Shacknews commentary on Gabe's emails posted in various forums):

1: Retail box, singleplayer, no multiplayer - ONE TIME FEE!
2: Retail box, singleplayer and multiplayer - ONE TIME FEE!
3: Retail box, singleplayer, multiplayer and other unknown cool stuff (collectors edition) - ONE TIME FEE!
4: STEAM, singleplayer and multiplayer - ONE TIME FEE!
5: STEAM, subscription model. Pay a montly fee and have access to all Valve titles, including the stuff on STEAM now (HL, OpFor, CS, TFC, etc), Half-Life 2, all future stuff they put out, and so forth.

Second, patches (bugfixes, maintenance releases, etc) will be free no matter which of the six option you decide to go for.

Community-based mods will be free unless the authors want to charge for them. Free community based mods will/can be made available though STEAM free of charge.

 

[WaltC]

IMO, this sucks, if true.

Well, it's not true.

You can subscribe to steam for $10/month...which IIRC gets you access to EVERY GAME and all content that ever comes out over steam. Not just Half-life2.

TF2 and CounterStrike will be new games for example, that you can purchase separately once they are released in stores. Or, if you have a monthly subscription to steam, you'll automatically get access to them once they are out.

I don't see anything wrong with the steam model itself. The potential issues, IMO, are going to be technical....(supplying necessary server and bandwidth capacity for the peak downloading times, like when new games or content is released.)

Thanks for straightening me out there, Joe...Put this way--that's not so bad and probably has a nice upside. I was thinking that if I bought the game at retail, I'd *have* to subscribe in order to get bonus packs, patches, etc.

Actually, if I could download the game and pay them directly--provided I'd be able to back it to CD once having done so--I'd have no objection to buying it direct and downloading it. I'll have to look more closely at the subscription terms, though, to see if that would interest me.

From what I gather from you, then, I can buy the game as usual and be privy to patches and other things without the necessity of subscribing. That's fine and like I say, if they structure it right I'd have no problem buying direct from them online.

 

[Dave H]

Once you cancel your Steam subscription you are no longer able to play any of the games (or access any other content) you've downloaded. Even though downloaded games/content are stored on your hard drive Steam authenticates you to the server before it lets you use it.

Of course this isn't a guarantee that this authentication model won't be cracked, but assuming they did a reasonably good job implementing it there's no good reason why it can't be secure.

As for the "issue" that most games are only worth playing for a month (if that) and then never looking at again...that's indeed something that will either need to be solved with a minimum subscription length or by making the content compelling enough to keep people paying.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Don't you think that Valve will have thought of the same thing that everyone else thought of? Or do you think they'll let someone subscribe for $10, download a $50 game and then cancel their subscription?

Of course...but there's more than one way to deal with that problem. The "solution" that ou offered (I'll add emphasis) "in effect there will minimum contract which will be equivalent to buying the boxed game, " is what doesn't make sense to me.

If that's going to be the prices, and that how the economics work out, then yes, it's better for the customer to buy everything off the shelf and forget Steam. Obviously, if more content comes out, the balance shifts the other way, depending on how long you subscribe.

You are not describing your earlier solution. You solution is that the minimum subscription is equivalent to buying the game off the shelf. Or is that not what you mean?

1: Retail box, singleplayer, no multiplayer - ONE TIME FEE!
2: Retail box, singleplayer and multiplayer - ONE TIME FEE!
3: Retail box, singleplayer, multiplayer and other unknown cool stuff (collectors edition) - ONE TIME FEE!
4: STEAM, singleplayer and multiplayer - ONE TIME FEE!

That's my understanding as well.

5: STEAM, subscription model. Pay a montly fee and have access to all Valve titles, including the stuff on STEAM now (HL, OpFor, CS, TFC, etc), Half-Life 2, all future stuff they put out, and so forth.

Right...the issue is your proposed soltution to the "subscribe and cancel" problem. Are you, or are you not claiming that Valve said there would be a "minimum subscription" effectively equivalent to buying the game off the shelf?

 

[digitalwanderer]

Once you cancel your Steam subscription you are no longer able to play any of the games (or access any other content) you've downloaded. Even though downloaded games/content are stored on your hard drive Steam authenticates you to the server before it lets you use it.

Well that seems insane to me. I do NOT like the idea of just renting a game.

Of course this isn't a guarantee that this authentication model won't be cracked, but assuming they did a reasonably good job implementing it there's no good reason why it can't be secure.

Well, except for the fact that no "reasonably good job implementing it" has happened yet to date. (I'm already giving this round to the crackers. )

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Right...the issue is your proposed soltution to the "subscribe and cancel" problem. Are you, or are you not claiming that Valve said there would be a "minimum subscription" effectively equivalent to buying the game off the shelf?

That's what I remember reading. It doesn't seem too improbable as many, many online subscription type services carry a minimum term. However, given Dave's recent posting above, it may be the case that I am wrong and the solution will be as you suggest, that you rent the content, and once you stop subscribing, you can no longer access the content.

However, if Dave's model is correct, it would still be possible to buy the game over Steam, play through the SP in a few days or weeks, and then cancel the subscription whilst only paying $10. If you are not interested in MP, or it's syle doesn't appeal to your tastes, this loophole enables you to play the full SP for a small portion of the retail SP-only box price. A mimimum price in the form of a minimum contract period for Steam subcription seems the only way to close this loophole.

I would guess that buying the one-off SP/MP version via Steam will cost a little less than a store boxed version, and that the subscription Steam model will cost you the equivalent over X number of months.

Have you any thoughts on how Valve might close this loophole in the Steam subscription model? Bear in mind, that that there is no way that any solution will end up with Valve making less money from the deal.

 

[parhelia]

I definitely won't want to get HL2 through STEAM, nor want a version without MOD support

 

[jjayb]

I would imagine they would have a sign up fee as well as the monthly charge. Say, $50 sign up fee plus $10 a month.

 

[cthellis42]

Not if they're going to cancel your access when you unsubscribe. With a $50 surcharge people MIGHT go for it if the later model was appealing (read "abusable") enough, but from the way it's sounding Steam more like a rental service, which on the whole isn't a bad idea. You could end up paying for a month or two periodically just to play new games and have fun, or even continue with Steam for a while and if you get 2-3 games worth a year, you've basically paid for the service.

...and of course since game cost always goes down over time, you could also play some things for a month or so and wait for retail prices to go down or bundles to be included to stretch your buck.

(Of course this all changes the moment someone figures out a way to hack it. )

 

[T2k]

As per release dates:

Gamestop

HL2 + Blue Shift (free): http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product_id=B645118A - 9/30

HL2: http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product_id=645118 - 11/19

CompUSA

HL2: http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=293507&pfp=BROWSE - 11/20

EBgames

HL2: http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/235059.asp - 11/19

Gamesplanet (UK)

HL2: http://www.gamesplanet.co.uk/?AFC=S33&FORMAT=PC&CLASS=Product&DBID=ca9aee42cd877ea54535cfc2034f0bfa - 11/28 (!)

Gameplay (UK)

HL2: http://shop.gameplay.co.uk/webstore/productpage.asp?ProductCode=RM00327 - 9/30

Weird, huh?

EDIT: Weirdest thing is Gamestop has two different dates...