Global warming

[Grall]

I actually haven't seen much about this other than a mention of it on Bad Astronomy. No major news sites seem to have picked up anything about it - that I've noticed anyway - so I have to conclude that the quality of scandalousness in these emails is very low.

But yeah, the "coincidence" with the release of this material and the climate talks hasn't slipped by a lot of folks it seems. Pretty unsophisticated attempt at distraction it would seem.

 

[KimB]

I actually haven't seen much about this other than a mention of it on Bad Astronomy. No major news sites seem to have picked up anything about it - that I've noticed anyway - so I have to conclude that the quality of scandalousness in these emails is very low.

Or, more likely, nobody has yet been able to fool the major news sources by taking quotes from those e-mails out of context.

 

[Squilliam]

Skepticalscience.com tells me that climate change is a lie. It is the number one global warming skeptic site on the internet, I know this because it has a skeptical name.

 

[epicstruggle]

Skepticalscience.com tells me that climate change is a lie. It is the number one global warming skeptic site on the internet, I know this because it has a skeptical name.

No one of any importance argues that climate does not changes over time, where you have considerable skepticism is whether humans are the cause of the latest change. Further more if we are changing the climate whether we should and/or can afford to do anything about it.

 

[Squilliam]

No one of any importance argues that climate does not changes over time, where you have considerable skepticism is whether humans are the cause of the latest change. Further more if we are changing the climate whether we should and/or can afford to do anything about it.

Well you don't even need to believe anything about climate change, infact one could completely disprove it and still end up following a similar prescription.

http://s1095.photobucket.com/albums/i475/westexas/?action=view&current=Slide1-18.jpg

Climate change or no climate change, fossil fuels are still finite, high grade ore is still finite, farmland is still finite. Oil is just the first fossil fuel with serious shortages looming, the cheap conventional oil anyway.

 

[Grall]

This past month of november was the warmest in Sweden in 250 years (possibly longer, since that's roughly how long we've been keeping track of the temperature), but yes, I'm sure it's just a coincidence. My friendly neighbor multinational oil corporation told me so.

 

[Sxotty]

No one of any importance argues that climate does not changes over time, where you have considerable skepticism is whether humans are the cause of the latest change. Further more if we are changing the climate whether we should and/or can afford to do anything about it.

The last sentence is the meat.

Science it pretty clear that humans are one of the primary drivers of climate change.

Now is it really worthwhile to care? If people were just honest and debated that I would have a lot more respect for them.

 

[hoho]

Further more if we are changing the climate whether we should and/or can afford to do anything about it.

Better question would be can we afford not to do something about it

 

[KimB]

Better question would be can we afford not to do something about it

Indeed. Just to take an extreme example, consider coal power generation. Coal power generation is one of the largest contributors to global warming, and it will increase in its fractional contribution in the future (largely because the oil is running out).

However, coal is vastly more expensive than things like wind and solar when you take into account the additional medical costs associated with the mining and burning of coal, before you even consider the costs that result from the added global warming. So if we were actually being rational about it, moving off of coal would be vastly cheaper than staying on it.

 

[Mize]

Climate change or no climate change, fossil fuels are still finite, high grade ore is still finite, farmland is still finite. Oil is just the first fossil fuel with serious shortages looming, the cheap conventional oil anyway.

We have a winner!
The only reason to be opposed to renewable energy or clean energy or anything other that what we're now using and slowly running out of is that you hold an equity position in the old, dirty technology and the run-down give you a period of maximized profits. Sure, you assume near the end that you or the companies whose stock you own will come up with the next energy source in the eleventh hour, but you're mainly focused on that skyrocketing energy cost and the money it puts in your pocket.

 

[Squilliam]

We have a winner!
The only reason to be opposed to renewable energy or clean energy or anything other that what we're now using and slowly running out of is that you hold an equity position in the old, dirty technology and the run-down give you a period of maximized profits. Sure, you assume near the end that you or the companies whose stock you own will come up with the next energy source in the eleventh hour, but you're mainly focused on that skyrocketing energy cost and the money it puts in your pocket.

Well it is kinda complicated. The current shale gas/shale oil plays aren't really that profitable, effectively so long as they keep replacing produced reserves with new ones their stock market price will continue to be pumped up. The really good profits come from conventional oil like Saudi Aramco which is 5* bigger than Exon-Mobil in revenue but about 20* bigger in profit.

I wouldn't say conspiracy I would prefer to think of it as a giant right wing reality distortion field. You have a bunch of people whom are actively buying into a bubble of unreality and this is worse than being subjected to a reality distortion field, they actively want to be in it!

 

[KimB]

Well it is kinda complicated. The current shale gas/shale oil plays aren't really that profitable, effectively so long as they keep replacing produced reserves with new ones their stock market price will continue to be pumped up. The really good profits come from conventional oil like Saudi Aramco which is 5* bigger than Exon-Mobil in revenue but about 20* bigger in profit.

I wouldn't say conspiracy I would prefer to think of it as a giant right wing reality distortion field. You have a bunch of people whom are actively buying into a bubble of unreality and this is worse than being subjected to a reality distortion field, they actively want to be in it!

There's also definitely the aspect of monied interests pushing their point of view, however. Nearly all of the anti climate science literature that has been produced has come out of conservative think tanks, which obtain significant funding from the fossil fuel industry.

 

[epicstruggle]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-16294420

 

[KimB]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-16294420

I'm not sure what inept police have to do with global warming.

 

[Grall]

Let's throw in another irrelevant-yet-relevant link then; one that's a bit more sinister in nature:
http://www.readersupportednews.org/...d-chevron-kazakhstan-and-a-us-backed-dictator

 

[Mariner]

Norfolk is pretty rural, to say the least. Knowing how clueless most coppers are about anything to do with computers/internet, I'm not exactly surprised to see that the country bumpkins in the Norfolk Constabulary don't know what they are doing!

 

[nutball]

I'm not sure what inept police have to do with global warming.

They flap about and generate entropy?

All that driving about really fast, skidding and screeching to a halt Sweeney-style, basically just dumps kinetic energy into the atmosphere in the form of heat.

 

[Grall]

2011 Warmest La Niña year on record; 11th (or 9th, depending) warmest year overall.

All 11 years of new millennium within the 13 warmest years overall. (!)

Extremely alarming, IMO.

 

[Mariner]

2011 Warmest La Niña year on record; 11th (or 9th, depending) warmest year overall.

All 11 years of new millennium within the 13 warmest years overall. (!)

Extremely alarming, IMO.

Pfft. This 'evidence' is clear proof of a secret global conspiracy by climate scientists who are probably laughing evilly as they try to destroy the poor, helpless oil companies.

What else could explain the increasing temperature measurements?

 

[Frank]

Ok, I found a nice report that is completely in line with my own research about AGW. (From Burt Rutan.)

My final verdict about AGW: