Games & N-Patches aka TruForm

[Kaotik]

Though this is bit "yesterday" as the new GPU's/VPU's don't support n-patches in hardware like R200 does, I was wondering, is there something else, besides lack of cards supporting it, anything which would prevent using this feature, which imo is actually very nice feature, at least from gamers point of view?

R8500 can get lot nicer looking models for example in UT200x without big performance loss and Morrowind looks like a completely different game using FPS Optimizer which brings N-Patches support for it.

Also, Neverwinter Nights (Aurora engine, right?) supports N-Patches, but apparently they abandoned idea of using it while the game was still in developement, since even though it makes the character models look insanely better, it also brings heartbreaking gaps to the models and terrain

I know there's tons of other games supporting TruForm too, but after ATi took out the list from their site (at least I can't find it anymore) I have no idea which games actually support it.

Does anyone have any list about it?

Games I know supporting it (via patch or out of the box)
UT200x
Neverwinter Nights
Return To Castle Wolfenstein (+ET?)
Half-Life (+CS)
Madden 2004
Serious Sam: (First &?) Second Encounter
Call of Duty + United Offensive
Myth 3
Soul Reaver 2 (at least I'm 99% sure this one does)
Unreal Tournament (usermade patch)
Quake (usermade patch)

What others?

 

[atlantis]

What others?

The Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind (via "fps optimizer")

 

[Kaotik]

What others?

The Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind (via "fps optimizer")

Yeah, mentioned elsewhere in the post but forgot it from the list

 

[CJ]

"Command & Conquer: Renegade" also supports TruForm. It has an option called "curved surfaces" which you can only activate when you've got TruForm turned on in the drivers. It smooths out the characters like the heads and stuff. It's the game that I play daily. 8)

The full list that was on ATi's site + some not mentioned:
- C&C: Renegade (curved surfaces)
- Deadly Toonz
- Earth & Beyond
- Half Life
- Half Life: Counterstrike
- Madden 2003
- Madden 2004
- Morrowind (by using FPS Optimizer)
- Myth 3
- Neverwinter Nights
- New World Order (the 'CS killer' default on)
- Quake 2
- Quake 3
- Rainbow Six: Raven Shield (default on)
- Return To Castle Wolfenstein
- Serious Sam
- Serious Sam: 2nd Encounter
- Soul Reaver 2
- Star Wars Galaxies Online
- Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
- Stokerider
- Team Fortress Classic
- Unreal Tournament 2003
- Unreal Tournament 2004

 

[Sxotty]

By the way in morrowind there are gaps introduced as well in certain models. If it is forced on me I can take a screen shot to prove it, but I hope you will allow me to just say it and go from there since I don't want to reinstall it just to show you.

The west gash rock that looks like a, hmpf, phallic symbol has gaps with npatches on...

 

[Goragoth]

How do you enable TruForm in NWN? I would like to see this even if its not useful. I've tried TruForm in Morrowind but its pretty much unusable on my R9700Pro (although the game always rund like crap so its hard to tell if it really makes it that much worse or not).

On a slightly related note I was playing NWN today and I noticed that enabling 4xAA made the game utterly unplayable while at no AA (everything else the same) it runs smooth as butter. :?

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

By the way in morrowind there are gaps introduced as well in certain models. If it is forced on me I can take a screen shot to prove it, but I hope you will allow me to just say it and go from there since I don't want to reinstall it just to show you.

You can modify the objects being tesselated in advanced options.

 

[atlantis]

How do you enable TruForm in NWN?

You have to edit nwn.ini, and add under the [Video Options] section "Enable Truform=1" (edit = without quotes)

 

[hovz]

turning on trueform in madden 2004 doesnt do shit as far as i can tell.

 

[Ylandro]

I've tried TruForm in Morrowind but its pretty much unusable on my R9700Pro (although the game always rund like crap so its hard to tell if it really makes it that much worse or not).

The graphics card has very little influence in Morrowind. For lower range machines, it's almost completely CPU bound, even in low resolution.

On my old Athlon700 + Radeon 64, there was no performance decrease going from 800x600 to 1280x960..... 8)

Now have a Athlon XP 2700+ plus a Radeon 9700, and it runs fine. Meaning 20+ fps.... heh heh... That's on 4x AA No higher framerate required for the game. (At least not in the way I was playing it....)

Truform is not usefull on a Radeon 9700. It's a software option now, so you get quite a performance hit. Without it, I can run full visibility. With truform, you need to decrease visibility range quite a bit for good framerates. Absolutely NOT worth it.

I remember when my brother had a Radeon 8500, he could use truform on Morrowind, with almost no performance hit.


Mind you... truform IS very nice. Things that get really much better, are for example stone boulders. They look MUCH better. Also the mushroom like trees. Ofcourse helmets are better too, but that's really much less obvious. Trees have a tendency to become slichtly worse, because branches are also rounded on the extremeties...



I wonder.... When the 9700 was released, there was mention of something called "contineous tessalation" being possible. Should be tessalation like truform, but only applied when neccessary. (i.e. when the view is close enough that you can see it.)

Never heared anything about it after that..... Does it still exist?

 

[Xmas]

I wonder.... When the 9700 was released, there was mention of something called "contineous tessalation" being possible. Should be tessalation like truform, but only applied when neccessary. (i.e. when the view is close enough that you can see it.)

Never heared anything about it after that..... Does it still exist?

Continuous tessellation isn't tied to N-patches in particular. It means the LOD for tessellation doesn't have to be an integer value, so there are smooth transitions and no polygon popping and gaps in areas where the LOD changes. It can be done with most kinds of curved surfaces.

The xbitlabs Parhelia review has a few paragraphs on it, though the images seem to be missing.

GeForce3 supported RT patches with continuous tessellation. Parhelia should support continuous tessellation, too.

 

[swaaye]

Heh, R300 and probably more of ATIs newer chips were marketed as having TruForm 2.0.
http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/ati/radeon9700pro/index.php?page=page2.inc

What a buncha bull

Maybe it can do all that fancy stuff, but you better have some massive CPU power available. When I switched on TruForm in Morrowind on my A64 w/ 9600 notebook the framerate went from like 15-20 with the max*2 view distance that FPS Optimizer allows to like 5 fps. It was somewhat stunning. I guess TruForm is either not emulated by a vertex shader program, or it is and it's real bad, or a 445MHz 9600's vertex shaders are no match for a 8500's TruForm unit.

 

[Kaotik]

How do you enable TruForm in NWN?

You have to edit nwn.ini, and add under the [Video Options] section "Enable Truform=1" (edit = without quotes)

IIRC it was something N-Patches, not TruForm, but I can remember wrong, of course.

 

[Kaotik]

"- Star Wars Galaxies Online
- Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast

How do I enable it in these?

 

[AlNom]

How do I enable it in these?

I'm just guessing, but it's probably one of those Cramack cvars with r_Ati_pntriangles or something.

 

[atlantis]

How do you enable TruForm in NWN?

You have to edit nwn.ini, and add under the [Video Options] section "Enable Truform=1" (edit = without quotes)

IIRC it was something N-Patches, not TruForm, but I can remember wrong, of course.

It came from nwn forums at bioware

 

[T2k]

I posted this earlier, I think: http://hrc.webzeppelin.hu/Patches-By_T2k!/

 

[Goragoth]

How do you enable TruForm in NWN?

You have to edit nwn.ini, and add under the [Video Options] section "Enable Truform=1" (edit = without quotes)

IIRC it was something N-Patches, not TruForm, but I can remember wrong, of course.

It came from nwn forums at bioware

It is Enable TruForm = 1 that does the trick. The performance hit isn't too bad but IMO it does very little to smooth things out and causes nasty gaps as well as hideous artifacts (rooftops keep flashing in and out of view in places). Really not worth it (having an option of how much to tesselate would be nice too, rather than just an on/off switch).

 

[Kaotik]

How do you enable TruForm in NWN?

You have to edit nwn.ini, and add under the [Video Options] section "Enable Truform=1" (edit = without quotes)

IIRC it was something N-Patches, not TruForm, but I can remember wrong, of course.

It came from nwn forums at bioware

It is Enable TruForm = 1 that does the trick. The performance hit isn't too bad but IMO it does very little to smooth things out and causes nasty gaps as well as hideous artifacts (rooftops keep flashing in and out of view in places). Really not worth it (having an option of how much to tesselate would be nice too, rather than just an on/off switch).

I wish I had NWN still installed or at least the pics still saved somewhere, the difference in the models is insane, in terms of smoothness. Too bad the gaps are insane too

 

[Reverend]

Though this is bit "yesterday" as the new GPU's/VPU's don't support n-patches in hardware like R200 does, I was wondering, is there something else, besides lack of cards supporting it, anything which would prevent using this feature, which imo is actually very nice feature, at least from gamers point of view?

Higher order surfaces (like TruForm) is problematic where shadows are concerned based on specific lighting solutions implemented in games. If shadows play a big part in a game, you don't want HOS. It fucks up shadow silhouettes. Better to spend the time using the good ole tradition (more polygons).