Game Streaming Platforms and Technology (xCloud, PSNow, Stadia, GeforceNow, Luna)

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by lefantome, Mar 19, 2019.

  1. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
    Legend

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    9,261
    Likes Received:
    1,428
    Location:
    Treading Water
    If you want to get into a semantics argument I suggest you go find a five year old. I'm sure we will both enjoy that more.
     
  2. pharma

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    4,115
    Likes Received:
    3,238
    That's what this is all about, semantics....
     
    tongue_of_colicab and AzBat like this.
  3. bgroovy

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    Messages:
    799
    Likes Received:
    626
    Semantics aren't the same as legal distinctions.
     
    Shifty Geezer, AlphaWolf and BRiT like this.
  4. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
    Moderator Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    18,278
    Likes Received:
    20,046
    Thanks to @Eolirin for pointing this out in the MS Acquisition thread...

    https://bethesda.net/en/game/orion



    WHAT IS ORION?
    Orion is technology that enhances the experience of a streamed game. Orion technology reduces latency and bandwidth while streaming a game, making streamed games accessible to more people, in more areas, at higher quality.

    Orion is a game- and platform-agnostic technology that optimizes game engines for streaming. In contrast to game streaming services that focus on hardware solutions to stream games, Orion is a game engine-level software solution. Integrated within the game engine itself, Orion can achieve dramatic latency reductions of up to 20% per frame as well as up to a 40% reduction in required bandwidth.

    What is Orion?
    Orion is patented game streaming technology that optimizes game engine performance in the cloud. It is game engine and cloud platform agnostic.

    Who is it for?
    Orion technology will make streaming games better for everyone. Orion was designed to improve the player experience by mitigating latency and reducing bandwidth requirements. Orion was also created for publishers, streaming providers, and developers to lower their streaming costs and ensure that games perform at the high quality they intended. Orion makes it possible for streamed video games to reach more players in more places without compromising quality.

    For players, Orion means enjoying high-speed performance with imperceptible latency even in a twitchy shooter; lower usage against ISP bandwidth caps; and a wider availability, making quality play available to players living far from data centers.

    For developers, the Orion SDK is easily integrated into a game, which means they can be confident in delivering a best-in-class streaming experience to players, with minimal additional effort.

    For streaming providers, Orion means reaching a bigger audience, at reduced costs, with a superior level of service. Orion makes possible substantially reduced capital investments in data centers, and can materially lower the cost in operating a streaming service.
     
    turkey, Jay and AzBat like this.
  5. Malo

    Malo Yak Mechanicum
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    8,145
    Likes Received:
    4,536
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Orion announced in June 2019 and nothing since?
     
  6. Jay

    Jay
    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Messages:
    3,347
    Likes Received:
    2,630
    Interesting, its a SDK so would mean some level of code update.

    If works as advertised MS could roll it into their cloud aware api. To reduce latency some more.
     
  7. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
    Moderator Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    18,278
    Likes Received:
    20,046
  8. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    12,748
    Likes Received:
    2,993
    I dont think Sony can compete. All the other companies providing cloud services are betting on streaming games running through PCs which are upgradeable and can provide higher end experiences that are subject to the streaming quality.

    MS will offer also local and streaming services which are not subject to the fixed console hardware.

    Google, Amazon and MS own huge servers and infrastructures.

    Sony has to rent infrastructure, and almost of their PS games exist on PC which can run them at higher settings than Playstation. Sony differentiates itself only through some exclusives but all the other companies will have exclusives too and can go above the console settings.

    I dont know whats in PS Now that can compete against those multi billion companies where they specialize in markets were they generate billions of profits, act almost as monopolies or massive market leaders
     
  9. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
    Moderator Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    18,278
    Likes Received:
    20,046
    Still have that same thought now?
     
  10. Globalisateur

    Globalisateur Globby
    Veteran Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,909
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    Location:
    France
    Well Nvidia service was too good so the big publishers killed it. Google service was looking very promising too...until it actually launched. Let's see how Amazon fare.
     
    BRiT likes this.
  11. manux

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Messages:
    2,548
    Likes Received:
    1,682
    Location:
    Earth
    Luna uses windows + turing t4. Also other interesting information in arstechnica article.

    https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020...-existing-windows-games-on-turing-level-gpus/
     
    Malo and BRiT like this.
  12. dobwal

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    5,621
    Likes Received:
    1,787
    Interesting. Want to see how much it costs. They have to pay for the hardware, windows licenses and pubs licensing fees.

    I wonder why a service like Stadia and Luna doesn’t just provide the hardware and underlying service support while just charging the pubs to host their own subscription service. Have the pubs work with MS regarding the cost of window instances.
     
  13. cheapchips

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,684
    Likes Received:
    1,792
    They already have a lot of hardware / licence agreements for EC2 G4 instances. There's a cost if they need more specifically for Luna. It's a question of how much more,and how much non Luna utilisation it also sees.
     
  14. Lalaland

    Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2013
    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    691
    No they killed it because they didn't sign licensing deals, Nvidia has always sailed close to the wind legally so their lawyers clearly told then "Not a hope here sunshine"
     
    Silenti, BRiT and Globalisateur like this.
  15. DSoup

    DSoup meh
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    14,423
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    Location:
    London, UK
    And this is the smart way to do it. :yes: Fast web-front end and no platform-specific app development. This really demonstrates the different mindset of the operations sides of Amazon and Microsoft. Amazon bee-lined standard web technologies but they are the original web commerce, it's all they've ever known.
     
  16. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
    Moderator Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    18,278
    Likes Received:
    20,046
    I wouldn't say spending over 2 years working on it as being "bee-lined". I'm going by Eastman's statement that development was ongoing when he worked at Amazon. They just kept it out of the public knowledge space so when it announced it looked like they were so quick with it.
     
    Silenti and AzBat like this.
  17. cheapchips

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,684
    Likes Received:
    1,792
    Luna and soon Gamepass as progressive web apps. I wonder if Apple expected this eventual outcome from supporting them? I guess they had no choice. It would be hard for them to justify breaking standards.
     
  18. pcchen

    pcchen Moderator
    Moderator Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    2,888
    Likes Received:
    374
    Location:
    Taiwan
    Apple still has only limited support for PWA in iOS 14. Personally I think the majority of those so-called "apps" are not necessary, as they can be easily replaced with a PWA, or even a simple web site.
    Apple even says something like this in their App Store review guideline:

    So at least they are not entirely against it, but I do hope they have better support for PWA.
     
    milk, iroboto and BRiT like this.
  19. Alucardx23

    Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2009
    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    79
    Haven't seen these videos talking about Gamebus shared here.

    @21:37


     
    cheapchips, Lalaland and BRiT like this.
  20. turkey

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    866
    Location:
    London
    Daft question alert:

    With the talk of VRR for next gen it got me thinking how this might apply to game streaming.

    Can you encode a video stream with a variable frame time, and if so can a VRR screen play it at as the frames arrive to try and avoid frame time fluctuations. Time from server to client will fluctuate so the quicker a frame can leave the better the chance it arrives in time, if it does not VRR would mean it can be displayed without waiting for the next natural refresh?

    I lack deep understanding in both vsync and VRR despiite watching many videos on it.

    What if we invert that and the cloud actually retards it's own frame start time effectively allowing extra time for controller response and then uses dynamic resolution or VRS to generate the frame in whatever budget it now has. The higher the latency to you the more the server reduces quality so it can hang on as late as possible to get input.

    Again possibly daft questions, but it seems for cloud it will be a sum of many small gains that help it, so every little helps.
     
    milk likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...