Formula 1 - 2015 season

Dave Baumann

Gamerscore Wh...
Moderator
Legend
The point being that the cooling aspects of the engine are outside of the rules for the engine token system. We already saw from last year that different teams with the same engine had different cooling solutions that gave them different performance characteristics. The main radiator designs are firmly in the hands of the "chassis" side, and they dictate quite a lot of the aerodynamics; this is also true for the cooling for the ancillary PU elements.

This particular change appears to be a clear trade-off of PU reliability/performance vs aerodynamics & center of gravity. At other tracks that do not have the same engine demands its conceivable that they would revert to the prior ERS cooling solution.
 

Bludd

Experiencing A Significant Gravitas Shortfall
Veteran
That's splitting words, IMO.
You must be new to F1. This is what teams do. This is what Ferrari did when they found the loophole that allows in-season power unit development this year. This loophole has been closed for 2016 which is why Renault is so angry, btw.
 

suryad

Veteran
Watching the Monaco f1 race finally. Christ it's boring! The cars look like they're barely moving. Hate this track as a spectacle.
 

Pete

Moderate Nuisance
Moderator
Legend
There's an F1 documentary called "1" that has a complete onboard lap of Monaco by Senna that's mesmerizing. I'd love to see more onboards, at least for replays of nice passes.
 

Gubbi

Veteran
You must be new to F1.
I am not, and I am well aware of teams exploring the limits of the rulebook.

It's just, - I loathe the engine freeze. It has gutted F1, - it is now a one team championship.

The argument that teams couldn't afford engine development is bogus. How much advertising revenue is the average non-Mercedes team losing because they can't perform ?

How much mind share is Renault and Honda losing because of lackluster performance ?

At least Le Mans looks to be interesting in both the LMP1 and LMGTE Pro classes this year.

Cheers
 

DJ12

Veteran
But surely if it was only the engine it would be a 4 team championship.

Ferrari are clearly the second team, and they don't have Mercedes engines, obviously.

There is far more to Mercedes dominance than simply the engine.

F1 is dull because the cars are managing everything from the first lap, not because Renault and Honda forgot how to make a good engine.
 
Even good races like Canada are boring this year.

As a long term F1 fan (over 25 years now), I must say that in this season I have real troubles to motivate myself to watch until the end of a GP....I wonder if there is a general decline in F1 fans, or if it is just my personal feeling atm.
 

Kaotik

Drunk Member
Legend
Even good races like Canada are boring this year.

As a long term F1 fan (over 25 years now), I must say that in this season I have real troubles to motivate myself to watch until the end of a GP....I wonder if there is a general decline in F1 fans, or if it is just my personal feeling atm.
It's probably because of how overpowered Mercedes is yet again - even Red Bull wasn't this dominant for 2 years straight IIRC
 

DJ12

Veteran
Then why aren't Williams always second, lotus third and force India fourth team?

They have the same engine
 

Kaotik

Drunk Member
Legend
Then why aren't Williams always second, lotus third and force India fourth team?

They have the same engine
Actually Mercedes has (or at least has the right to have) one development step newer engine than their customers and they have the luxury of designing the engine and car together from scratch.
Anyway, I didn't specify that Mercedes engine alone is so dominant, but the whole package they have at the team. (should have used dominant, not overpowered to avoid confusion I guess)
 

DJ12

Veteran
Designing the car around the engine was only an advantage for last season, for this session all the customer teams, apart from lotus, knew exactly how the engine is configured.

No doubting Mercedes are dominant, but the ground swell that's it's all about the engine (not saying this is your opinion) is so far off the mark.
 

Rurouni

Veteran
I don't know how restricted engine customers can access the engine, but from what I read, McLaren was really restricted by Mercedes on the PU stuff. Of course it is probably because McLaren will use Honda engine for 2015, but I think Merc still hide some stuff about the engine from its customer. My feeling it's probably mostly software related, and probably Merc cherry pick the best engine for them.
 

DJ12

Veteran
I think The guy who left Ferrari and joined Williams with Massa (I forget his name) stated their engines were exactly the same as the Mercedes ones, but they have different engine modes to Mercedes.

Anyway, I found this in my search for the guys name (Smedley)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118139

Engines are exactly the same, it's a contractual requirement.
 

Dave Baumann

Gamerscore Wh...
Moderator
Legend
Yes, engine specs for Mercedes teams are the same. The teams pick the cooling options according to how they want to run the engine/aerodynamics.
 

Rurouni

Veteran
Although engine must be the same, doesn't mean Merc can't cherry pick the best performing one, even if the difference is small. Like CPU with the exact spec react a bit differently when overclocked, if Merc isn't cherry picking, then they are stupid. Especially since this is only the 2nd year in 1.6T, thus the engine production probably isn't as mature as the previous era, combined with the fact that they use tokens to basically change the whole engine from the 1st year, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a little difference in performance between the same engine spec, especially when the engine is pushed to the max.
 

Kaotik

Drunk Member
Legend
I'm quite sure I just read somewhere someone from Williams stating that Mercedes has the right to be 1 "revision" ahead of it's customers on the engine
 

Dave Baumann

Gamerscore Wh...
Moderator
Legend
With in-season development occurring this year there will potentially be a break if/when Mercedes decide to use their tokens due to the number of new spec engine fabricated and when each team are choosing to change to their next engine, but that is specific to this seasons rule anomaly and hasn't happened with Mercedes yet. Sky sports pointed out that Sauber are a couple of races away from getting Ferrari's uprated engine they used in Canada.
 

DJ12

Veteran
Through choice I heard them say. Turns out it was a wise move as whatever Ferrari have done has created a reliability issue.
 
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