Epic Sues Apple and Google due to Fortnite getting pulled [2020-08-13]

Discussion in 'Mobile Industry' started by eastmen, Aug 13, 2020.

  1. zed

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  2. dobwal

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    If nothing has changed, Apple only charges 30% if the sign-up of a subscription originates from an iOS product. I guess Apple looks at it as an Apple device that helped drive the sale so should receive a portion of the revenue. Plus if the subscription was generated elsewhere, you wouldn't be paying through the Apple store so there isn't anything for Apple to tax. Also, it is reduced to 15% after a year.

    This is a common revenue model for a lot of platforms, outside of PCs. Some companies get around it by offering subs at cheaper pricing when signing up through an alternative device (like a PC).
     
    #343 dobwal, Feb 24, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  3. DSoup

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    And the judge awarded in favour of Apple's request, although limited the request to 436 games. This does feel a bit loopy that a third party (Valve) to the Epic/Apple litigation can be compelled to disclosure confidentially to the court to held defend Apple. Sure, I know this information will be tightly controlled and not made public but it feels nuts.

    At this stage it's difficult to see how Epic are going to win against Apple or Google. Steam's data will undoubtably show that despite Epic having a thinner retail margin than Steam, that the 30% industry 'nom' has not been impacted sales which is fundamentally Apple and Google's argument. If this were the case, Valve would certainly have changed Steam's retail margins by now.

    Epic's case against Google seems even more flimsy given you can side-load apps on Android. This is definitely a case where companies simply have too much money just suing each other to marginally increase that already-mountain-sized piles of money. :???:
     
    #344 DSoup, Feb 26, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
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  4. Betanumerical

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    You can side load apps onto a non-jailbroken iPhone as well, its just harder. See https://altstore.io.
     
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  5. zed

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  6. DSoup

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    I hope they divorce Epic's greedy narrative from the legitimate concerns of rank and file developers. Epic's statements really undermine what otherwise looks like a ludicrous margin for smaller and even some medium-sized developers. I know 30% is standard and has been standard for a long, long time but if Apple, Google, Microsoft and Sony want to maintain this bonkers margin for digital sales they really need to explain what the real costs so as to justify it.

    Maybe it is fair, but it sure as hell does not feel it.
     
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  7. tuna

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    Why is Epic greedy while smaller developers are not?
     
  8. manux

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    Epic doesn't feel very greedy to me. They open sourced their unreal engine. It's free to use in any project that makes less than 1 million revenue. This sounds like pretty good deal. But I guess you referenced to why epic doesn't want to pay 30% tax to apple. Small devs have no chance to make any effort to move apple so they probably stay silent to stay on good side of apple. It's death sentence if apple "bans" you.
     
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  9. zed

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  10. DSoup

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    Epic are not struggling for revenue with Fortnite, smaller developers are. Epic have been taking billions of dollars per quarter from micro transactions and yet it's just not enough. When you get these mega-corps fighting over their cut, it just detracts the struggle that average developers have every day.

    Smaller devs would stand a better chance of getting a better deal on margins if the attention wasn't all focussed on this mega-behemoth and the way that are fucking up the case, losing left right and centre in different jurisdictions with there dumb-arse showboating tactics will make it much more difficult for other companies to make their more modest cases for change.
     
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  11. AlphaWolf

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    I think it's the opposite. Smaller devs don't stand a chance if Epic can't get a better deal.
     
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  12. DSoup

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    Epic can afford to lose, which means they're doing big dumb dramatic shit for attention. Smaller developers can't afford to lose, they'd probably take this whole situation more seriously because they have everything to lose.
     
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  13. tuna

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    If Epic gets a better deal, smaller devs will probably also get a better deal. Also, wouldn't be better for everyone (except Apple of course) if all publishers get a better deal on the App store?
     
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  14. tuna

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    What would they lose? Would Apple raise its cut to 50%?
     
  15. BRiT

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    If they get removed from the Apple store they lose all chances at their 70% cut of selling their products, no?
     
  16. wco81

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    Seriously, not being able to choose default music app. is Orwellian?

    It's not as if iOS users can't use Spotify or Pandora or whatever.[/QUOTE]
     
  17. BRiT

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    It was when the app was a Web Browser and Microsoft instead of Apple. Not Orwellian, but abuse of position. Apple should be forced to make custom version of iOS that presents Music App Selection screens when first launching music with the order of app selection being randomized.
     
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  18. wco81

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    Apple has NOTHING like the desktop monopoly that MS had when it killed Netscape. We're talking 95%.

    And default music app. is nothing like the browser as a gateway to the web which was skyrocketing in popularity at the time. People used to buy CD ROMs to get games and video and other media before the web came along. Netscape even explicitly said that if they became portal to the Internet, the underlying OS won't matter. That was basically a declaration of war. Not to say MS didn't abuse their position.

    But default music app is nothing like default browser on a platform with 95% market share. Spotify can make money on other platforms besides iOS. Netscape being undermined on Windows basically killed them.

    Spotify's main complaint is the 30% fee that Apple charges. I don't understand why members on a gaming site has problems with that. How much do you think Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo get from third-party developers? Or Steam?

    Why aren't some game developers complaining about the fees and revenues they are forced to share with platform owners? Answer is many of them make tons of money with this arrangement, as is the case for many iOS developers.

    Epic's little gambit is about forcing their own games store onto iOS.

    Spotify is rightly scared because they're competing with Apple Music. But I believe they still have bigger marketshare on iOS and certainly bigger number of subscribers when you factor in all platforms.

    If you built a popular platform, would you feel obligated to help someone else monetize your platform? Mind you, a popular platform, not a monopoly platform.

    Why aren't they cutting deals with Samsung, which typically ships more phones a year than Apple? Or go after the top 3 or 4 phone manufacturers other than Apple? The answer is, they can cry to the EU (as an EU company), which has a predilection for going after US companies, because they favor their own champions -- if you want an current example look at the way EU countries are handling vaccines, demanding that some companies not ship vaccines outside the EU until they meet EU demand first.
     
  19. DSoup

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    Develops lose the opportunity of a small retailer margin and more profits for themselves.

    So what's the problem? Any app already can play music on the device and access playlists created in the Music app. I can see the case for options to change the default app for email and web browsing because there are many iOS UI actions that trigger sending something by email or viewing something in the web browser but I can't think of anything music-related. iOS itself doesn't use the music app to play audio, it just plugs into the same iOS-level audio system that the iOS Music app uses.

    Am I missing something?

    How do you "launch music"? The only way I am aware that you can "launch music" is by doing a search on your phone for something like track or artists of music on your phone but the search isn't actually searching the music on your phone it's searching for your search term in the apps you have installed on your in whatever app you're using. If your music is catalogued by the SuperMusic app and you "launch music" it will open SuperMusic and start playing music in that app.

    I must be overlooking something but this is how music has worked for years - I know I use the Stealla visualiser for music on my iPad.

    Is there some other use case where this isn't working?
     
    #360 DSoup, Mar 6, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
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