English.aljazeera.net back up

[RussSchultz]

This time full of content.

Amazingly, anti-american content, and really bad reporting.

http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

"Bomb destroys Baghdad Police Station" is the title. Except the bomb blew up 10 cars in a garage. Its says in the opening paragraph 1 person dead. Three paragraphs later it quotes an Iraqi policeman saying "nobody was killed".

A top story: "Nasr Allah: US doesn't want stable Iraq". Any body know who Nasr Allah is? The Hizb'allah general secretary.

There's an opinion poll: Why does the US occupy Iraq: a) control oil ; b) safeguard Israel; c) To get rid of alleged WMD.

In its following of the Israeli/Palestine conflict, it makes sure to point out that the Apache helicopters were US made. (Every mention of them, even in the tight headline space, is "US made Apache")

Of course, every piece has to mention innocent civilians being killed, or some other anti-american piece, no matter how out of place it is. In the article about the new cabinet in Iraq, it tacks on the following out of the blue: "When US tanks invaded Baghdad on 9 April, American troops almost immediately protected the oil ministry. All other ministries were burned, looted or bombed."

What frightens me is this isn't state run press being an anti-american mouthpiece for the government, its a supposedly free press pandering to their viewers.

Even scarier is this quote from an article on Bakir's (the Indonesian cleric) sentencing:

"The trial, which began on April 23, was seen as a key test of Indonesia's willingness to crack down on political Islam. "

Is that what all these car bombings killing innocent people are called!? Political Islam?

 

[Tahir2]

Is that what all these car bombings killing innocent people are called!? Political Islam?

Hey Russ!

I know your question was rhetorical but some people here might not see that so I best answer it before someone else chimes in

Answer to your question is: No killing innocent people in car bombings, hijackings, kidnappings, suicide bombings etc. etc. has nothing to do with Islam or Islamic Politics.

It, apparently, does have something to do with Politics but to be honest I am not entirely sure what.

 

[RussSchultz]

I'd like to believe that. I really would. It certainly meshes with my direct experience with Muslims. They've all been nice people who I presume wouldn't put up with violence as a political tool. (Of course, truth be known, most of the Muslims I've known were here in the states and were relatively secular; though I currently work with a very devout muslim)

However, it does seem that quite a few in the world do. The leaders of Islam in the Arab world seem to freely espouse hate and violence and there doesn't seem to be a vocal majority that condemns what goes on. Any protests I've seen have centered around burning Israeli and American flags. This radicalism needs to ostracized from Islamic society, but I don't see anybody taking the steps.

And that scares the crap out of me.

Granted, it might just be the coverage I see that plays up the radicalism and skips over the anti-radical protests but this Al Jazeera coverage says to me that even the "free" press in the Arab world goes along with the more violent trends. And its even scarier if this free press is simply pandering to their consituents and not pushing their own agenda.

From my perspective, the Muslim world needs a Martin Luther (not King Jr) to post his own letter on the door of the Mosque in Mecca over what the leaders of Islam are preaching.

Again, perhaps I'm wrong, but more and more of the US population is beginning to have the same feelings about Islam: http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=189

That doesn't make me right, but it does mean I'm not alone in my concerns.

 

[pax]

Without being pc about this yes we can say theres a problem over there aggravated by historically recent colonisation and the 50 year old palestinian problem. And yes we do have a major religious radical sect making its way with billions in saudi and other aid. Yet Im sure not every wahabi is like this tho. Religions have their phases and the fanatical phases usually die very quickly unless persecuted.

I think one of the ways to not let this go too far is to not try and paint the muslim world as a whole as antagonist. And I do mean more than just accepting secular or small groups of muslims. The violence is obviously from a very small minority but it doesnt that many to do a lot of damage. We are letting press coverage get into our heads a bit here. There is no widespread revolt in Iraq. Vietnam was killing about 100 gi's a day. Youd think being in the middle of the muslim world in Iraq would see at least half that many casualties if the press coverage about how 'muslims hate us so much' was true...

I think the onus is on us to fight for the trust of those who dont trust us. Itll take time to fix our reputation here. If the region can finally democratize Im sure there will be plenty of free press to go around to contest al jazeera. Personally I see worse reporting on foxnews but at least I do have CNN/PBS/BBC to turn to...

 

[Natoma]

This time full of content.

Amazingly, anti-american content, and really bad reporting.

You expected Pulitzer Prize winning material?

Shame on you and your gullibility.

 

[Tahir2]

Russ even though you do not see anyone taking steps to ousticize this trend of espousing hatred and violence towards the West, it is happening God Willing.

Let me relate to you why I believe what you say is true Russ and why you fears are grounded on reality and why it is not ignorance that makes you fearful but what you see and hear:

This is an extract from Imam Ghazzali's work, Ihya Ulum-Id-Din (The revivification of religious learnings)

Jesus Christ said: How can you guide the night travellers along the right way when you yourself are perplexed... The wicked learned man is like a rock which has fallen into the source of a stream. It neither absolves any water itself, nor permits it to flow out and reach the plants.

Hazrat Osman said: I fear most for this nation [Islam] the hypocrite learned man. People asked: How can a hypocrite be a learned man? He replied: He has verbal knowledge, but his mind and his actions are ignorant.

Hazrat Hasan Basri said: Don't be included within those who are learned in wisdom andknowledge but are to the ignorant actions.

Khalid bin Ahmed said: There are four kinds of men - (1) One who has real knowledge and knows what he knows. He is a rel learned man. (2) One who has knowledge but he does not know what he knows. Be careful of him. (3) One who has no knowledge and knows he does not know. Such a man is fit to be guided, so guide him. (4) One who has no knowledge and does not know that he knows not. Leave him alone.

Ibn Mobarak said: A man is learned til he searches for knowledge. When he thinks he has knowledge, he becomes ignorant.

Hazrat Hasan said: Death of the heart is the punishment of the learned man. The death of the heart is the search of the world with the actions of the hereafter.

A poet said:
"Woe to one who buys misguidance
in lieu of guidance;
"Woe more to one who buys the world
in lieu of the hereafter;
"Woe still more to one who fosters irreligion
in lieu of religion."

[Finally why we should be fearful of theses preaches of violence and hatred whilst in positions of knowledge and trust in the Community]

The Prophet Muhammed said regarding a wicked learned man: Some learned men will suffer such intense agonies of torture that the inmates of Hell will seek refuge on seeing their tortures. They are the wicked learned men. The Prophet Muhammed said: On the resurrection day [Day of Judgement], a learned man will be brought and will be thrown into Hell. His bowels will gush forth and he will with his bowels as a donkey moves round a mill-stone. The inmates of Hell will move along with him and ask: What is the matter with you? He will reply: I sued to enjoin the people to do good but I was not myself accustomed to it. I used to prophibit them evil but I myself used to do it. God says: The hypocrites will remain in the lowest abyss of Hell (4:44) as they refused to accept truth after they acquired knowledge.

 

[zurich]

On one end, you have Fox/Ha'aretz, on the other you have Al Jazeera/indy media. Pretty simple.

 

[RussSchultz]

You'd really, honestly, put fox news in the same category as Indymedia?

Really?


No....really?

 

[Natoma]

Fox News and indymedia both come out with some pretty outlandish news stories.

 

[RussSchultz]

Oh, come on. Fox news may be somewhat slanted in what it reports, and how it reports it, but its nowhere in the league of Indymedia.

I have no problem believing any story that comes out of Fox is based on facts, and likely correct ones. I can separate it from any editorializing. That cannot be said for Indymedia, or even Al Jazeera.

 

[zurich]

Fox IS pretty out there

edit: I should clarify that Fox and Indymedia aren't grouped together, rather polar extreme opposites in how they report. Both are equally bad

Reuters is nice, however!

 

[Tahir2]

Russ wrote: However, it does seem that quite a few in the world do. The leaders of Islam in the Arab world seem to freely espouse hate and violence and there doesn't seem to be a vocal majority that condemns what goes on. Any protests I've seen have centered around burning Israeli and American flags. This radicalism needs to ostracized from Islamic society, but I don't see anybody taking the steps.




http://www.mcb.org.uk/ulama.html

It is a criminal act to take the life of a human being without due process of law. The killing of innocent people whether done by individuals or state institutions is condemned in Islam.


On this basis the meeting absolutely condemned the atrocities in America on 11 September which resulted in the loss of almost 7000 lives.

http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm

“We are grief-stricken at these horrifying events,†they wrote; “the murder of innocents can never be justified and must not be tolerated.â€
In a lengthy statement, professors from major colleges and universities throughout the country expressed their compassion for grieving family members while also decrying the increase in violence against American Muslims this past week. “Anger and frustration are completely understandable and shared by us all,†they wrote “yet that anger must not be directed at individuals utterly innocent of these terrible crimes.â€

http://www.islamfortoday.com/khan09.htm

I am writing this to make it clear that there are Muslims in America and in the world who despise and condemn extremists and have nothing to do with Bin Laden and those like him for whom killing constitutes worship.

http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2002-09/15/article15.shtml

In a fatwa to IslamOnline, Sheikh Faysal Mawlawi, the Vice-President of the European Council for Fatwa and Research, said that “To hijack a civil airplane in which women, children, senior citizens, Muslims, and non-Muslims are traveling is forbidden, because this terrorizes people, and this is forbidden except in times of war, and only against fighters.

“If we add that the hijackers used these airplanes full of civilians to hit the World Trade Center in New York City, where there are thousands of workers, all of them non-fighters, in which there were women and senior citizens, and Muslims… we can then see the magnitude of the violation of Shari’a that the hijackers have fallen into. This is especially true since they meant to kill civilians, and these civilians were not killed in cross-fire,†he added.

Even a prominent Wahhabi/Salafi scholar speaks out against this episode (I don't even agree with most of their claims especially those against Sufism and Tassawuf but just for reference):

http://www.thewahhabimyth.com/sept11.htm

Shaykh Saalih as-Suhaymee is one of the more senior scholars of the city of Medina, Saudi Arabia. Shortly after the events of September 11, he was asked by a group of Salafi youth in Toronto, Canada, to advise the Muslims as to what their position should be regarding the terrorist attacks. After a short preliminary speech, the lecturer at the Islamic University of Medina recited the following verse from the Quran:

"Thus We have made you a just and most balanced nation, that you may be witnesses over mankind (on the Day of Judgement), and the Messenger be a witness over you."

"Hence, Islam is a balanced and moderate way, and it does not enter into negligence on the one hand, nor exaggeration or extremism on the other. It is balanced in between (these two extremes)… In addition, Islam encourages equity and justice amidst both Muslims and non-Muslims.

"Verily, Allah enjoins justice, the doing of good, and giving to kith and kin; He forbids all shameful and prohibited deeds, and oppression. He admonishes you, that you may take heed."

(Quite a few on this page)

http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm

Harun Yahya (Adnan Oktar), Turkish author:
“Islam does not encourage any kind of terrorism; in fact, it denounces it. Those who use terrorism in the name of Islam, in fact, have no other faculty except ignorance and hatred.â€
Harun Yahya, “Islam Denounces Terrorism,†http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com

Shaikh Muhammad Yusuf Islahi, Pakistani-American Muslim leader:
“The sudden barbaric attack on innocent citizens living in peace is extremely distressing and deplorable. Every gentle human heart goes out to the victims of this attack and as humans we are ashamed at the barbarism perpetrated by a few people. Islam, which is a religion of peace and tolerance, condemns this act and sees this is as a wounding scar on the face of humanity. I appeal to Muslims to strongly condemn this act, express unity with the victims' relatives, donate blood, money and do whatever it takes to help the affected people.â€
“Messages From Shaikh Muhammad Yusuf Islahi,†http://www.icna.org/wtc_islahi.htm

Abdal-Hakim Murad, British Muslim author:
“Targeting civilians is a negation of every possible school of Sunni Islam. Suicide bombing is so foreign to the Quranic ethos that the Prophet Samson is entirely absent from our scriptures.â€
“The Hijackers Were Not Muslims After All: Recapturing Islam From the Terrorists,†http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/masud/ISLAM/ahm/recapturing.htm

Syed Mumtaz Ali, President of the Canadian Society of Muslims:
“We condemn in the strongest terms possible what are apparently vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Canadians in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.â€
Canadian Society of Muslims, Media Release, September 12, 2001, http://muslim-canada.org/news09112001.html

15 American Muslim organizations:
“We reiterate our unequivocal condemnation of the crime committed on September 11, 2001 and join our fellow Americans in mourning the loss of up to 6000 innocent civilians.â€
Muslim American Society (MAS), Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), Muslim Alliance of North America (MANA), Muslim Student Association (MSA), Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP), United Association for Studies and Research (UASR), Solidarity International, American Muslims for Global Peace and Justice (AMGPJ), American Muslim Alliance (AMA), United Muslim Americans Association (UMAA), Islamic Media Foundation (IMF), American Muslim Foundation (AMF), Coordinating Council of Muslim Organizations (CCMO), American Muslims for Jerusalem (AMJ), Muslim Arab Youth Association (MAYA), October 22, 2001, http://www.icna.org/wtc_pr.htm

American Muslim Political Coordination Council:
“American Muslims utterly condemn what are apparently vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.â€
http://capwiz.com/cair/issues/alert/?alertid=49818&type=CU&azip=

Dr. Agha Saeed, National Chair of the American Muslim Alliance:
“These attacks are against both divine and human laws and we condemn them in the strongest terms. The Muslim Americans join the nation in calling for swift apprehension and stiff punishment of the perpetrators, and offer our sympathies to the victims and their families.â€
http://www.amaweb.org/AMA Condemns.html

Hamza Yusuf, American Muslim leader:
“Religious zealots of any creed are defeated people who lash out in desperation, and they often do horrific things. And if these people [who committed murder on September 11] indeed are Arabs, Muslims, they're obviously very sick people and I can't even look at it in religious terms. It's politics, tragic politics. There's no Islamic justification for any of it. ... You can't kill innocent people. There's no Islamic declaration of war against the United States. I think every Muslim country except Afghanistan has an embassy in this country. And in Islam, a country where you have embassies is not considered a belligerent country. In Islam, the only wars that are permitted are between armies and they should engage on battlefields and engage nobly. The Prophet Muhammad said, ``Do not kill women or children or non-combatants and do not kill old people or religious people,'' and he mentioned priests, nuns and rabbis. And he said, ``Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees and do not poison the wells of your enemies.'' The Hadith, the sayings of the Prophet, say that no one can punish with fire except the lord of fire. It's prohibited to burn anyone in Islam as a punishment. No one can grant these attackers any legitimacy. It was evil.â€
San Jose Mercury News, September 15, 2001, http://www0.mercurycenter.com/local/center/isl0916.htm

Nuh Ha Mim Keller, American Muslim author:
“Muslims have nothing to be ashamed of, and nothing to hide, and should simply tell people what their scholars and religious leaders have always said: first, that the Wahhabi sect has nothing to do with orthodox Islam, for its lack of tolerance is a perversion of traditional values; and second, that killing civilians is wrong and immoral.â€
“Making the World Safe for Terrorism,†September 30, 2001, http://66.34.131.5/ISLAM/nuh/terrorism.htm

Edit: typo

 

[DemoCoder]

I generally agree with most people's viewpoint of AlJazeera, but there are some positive sides.

News media is generally more liberal and progressive than the society it represents. AlJazeera, believe it or not, is injecting some viewpoints into local markets that they wouldn't otherwise be exposed to, such as their coverage of the downfall of women in Iraqi society (pre-sanctions and pre-war, women were much better off), and they criticized the US for the governing council only having 1 woman minister.

Even if they did it to criticize the US, the viewpoint that women should have better status has been communicated into very patriarchal markets, piggybacked on an anti-US carrier wave. That means Saudi's watching AlJazeera face an interesting choice: accept AlJazeera's criticism that women should have better status and the US is not doing enough in post-war Iraq, or don't accept it, in which case, the anti-US message is wrong.


There are other positives, such as AlJazeera covering political processes in Europe and the US, even if they are criticising them, because people living in authoritarian regimes are being exposed to democracy in action, and may start to demand it.

So while AlJazeera may seem extreme to us, and perhaps they are even the "Fox News" of arabs, they are probably far more liberal than many of the people living in the tribal areas who are receiving the satellite signals.

Perhaps after 20 years of public debate on Arab airwaves, things will start to drastically liberalize.

 

[Tahir2]

Even if they did it to criticize the US, the viewpoint that women should have better status has been communicated into very patriarchal markets, piggybacked on an anti-US carrier wave. That means Saudi's watching AlJazeera face an interesting choice: accept AlJazeera's criticism that women should have better status and the US is not doing enough in post-war Iraq, or don't accept it, in which case, the anti-US message is wrong.

IMO the Saudi and other Arab countries on the borders of Iraq including Iran, Jordan, Syra, Yemen, Qatar, Kuwait should all accept the apparent criticism that you talk of Democoder. Not accept it an go, 'ah that is too bad' but accept it and do something about it too! This is nothing new and nothing liberal within Islamic society. It is new and it is an innovation that women are seen in such a poor light within so-called Islamic States.