Engineering: What qualities make something great or a mess? *spawn from XBox One X*

Turbulence causes noise, I think it looks fine from that perspective. Heatsink is longer so more restriction, so higher rpm required for the air to move. But less air required because more surface. It should even out and have a very hot exhaust. (which sounds bad but hot outlet means very efficient cooling, it's a good thing!)
But isn't high pressure and high turbulence directly correlated ? So once the air leaves the high pressure chamber into open air where air isn't moving in the same direction, that mixture, or anything impeding that flow causes turbulence and thus noise? (Ie hurricanes, jet turbines, etc? )
 
But isn't high pressure and high turbulence directly correlated ? So once the air leaves the high pressure chamber into open air where air isn't moving in the same direction, that mixture, or anything impeding that flow causes turbulence and thus noise? (Ie hurricanes, jet turbines, etc? )
It's not really pressurized, it's the static pressure needed for the air to move at all. Same thing happens with axial. It's a very low actual pressure if you look at the graphs.

Think of it like a syringe, the static pressure is gigantic, but when you squeeze it, it's only enough to get the air out at a steady rate.

Or an HEPA air filter which restrict air, but there is no noise cause by the different pressure between the back and front of the filter. The motor need to spin up to compensate.
 
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I am curious to know if there significant enough changes to CUH-7100 PS4 Pro model to impact noise....as I can tell the big changes for original PS4 was not on the first (CUH-1100) but 2nd revision (CUH-1200) and I think largely due to moving to 1GB mem chips.

Reading this DF article it seems Sony simply lowered fan speed as noise went down but temps went up:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-playstation-4-cuh-1200-c-chassis-review

So it's possible they could of done same thing for CUH-7100 if they are OK with temps going up a couple of degrees.
 
You probably hear less about the one because of the overall sales difference between the two consoles.
I'd expect it's more a case of considerably lower power usage, and especially for vanilla xbone, a friggin huge box to dilute any generated heat in. Coilwhine (and fan noise, assuming other factors are reasonably same-ish) tend to increase swiftly with power draw... :)

I remember a Xbox One dev team member posting on reddit that "it's the same as Xbox One S".
I remember some Xbox division head or whatever promise back in 2005 that care had been taken with regards to noise, and that the xbox 360 would be a quiet console. Well, we know what that promise was worth, don't we! :LOL:

Coil whine however is related to using open inductors to save 25 cents versus resin filled ones.
I've had solid inductors whine on me myself, a mate of mine has a new MSI GF1080 card that whines, and there's tons more example on the web, sadly. It's just luck that decides if you get one that makes noise; bad luck, that is... Ugh.
 
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Ps4/pro fan design is just trash.

I bought ps4 on launch = noisier fan than launch 360 while spinnig a disc, so loud that it drowned game sounds + could be heard +10m away.

Got new one from warranty = less noisy, still easily audible, annoying in more quiet parts of the games, too loud to enjoy netflix. Still audible from 4-5m away trought a toiled door on worst games.

Got third one, it were similar with second one.

Then traded it to pro on its launch = pro sounded like Michael Bay Transformers special effects + really loud fan.

Got second new pro from gamestop from warranty = better, but still easily audible + too noisy for dialogue.

Got third pro for my gf yesterday= similar to mine, we are playing last of us and fan noise drowns the atmospheric sounds aka all we hear is the fan noise + louder effects/dialogue.

Then I have listened 4-5 original ps4s + few pros at my friends = none were quiet, all were too easily audible from long distance.

And all mine + gfs are sitting on top of a table, with room all around.

Also changed thermal paste+pads for one original model, it helped for a while but noise came back.


So so far I have witnessed 10-15 original &pro models total, and none were so silent that I would call em quiet/fine for gaming.

So either I am super unlucky, or most ps4s are loud.

We dont have air cons or other noise sources at Finland usually, so maybe that is one reason as there is not much of ambient noises around.

I also have switch = it is also clearly audible on docked mode while playing Zelda, from 3-4m away. I would call it quiet, but not silent.

So if switch is so easily audible, I would bet that 99% of people that claim that they cant hear their ps4 are lying or living next to a motor way without windows :p

Because even switch that is maybe 20-35dB max is easily audible, how could ps4 with 50-65dB be silent?

Too bad that sony could not make these more silent, as it is only thing that annoys me on the console(s).
 
I have a feeling many people game with headsets or the volume quite loud to cover up most of the fan noise. I can hear my xbox one. It's quiet, but not silent. Usually my game volume covers it up though. At night I tend to game with a headset, so then I can't hear it at all.
 
My experience with PS4/Pro fan noise:

I bought ps4 on launch = noisier fan than launch 360 while spinnig a disc, so loud that it drowned game sounds + could be heard +10m away.

Got new one from warranty = less noisy, still easily audible, annoying in more quiet parts of the games, too loud to enjoy netflix. Still audible from 4-5m away trought a toiled door on worst games.

Got third one, it were similar with second one.
Then traded it to pro on its launch; I thought that the pro sounded like Michael Bay Transformers special effects + really loud fan.

Got second new pro from gamestop from warranty = better, but still easily audible + I found it too noisy for dialogue.

Got third pro for my gf yesterday= similar to mine, we are playing last of us and fan noise drowns the atmospheric sounds aka all we hear is the fan noise + louder effects/dialogue.

Then I have listened 4-5 original ps4s + few pros at my friends = none were quiet, all were too easily audible from long distance.

And all mine + gfs are sitting on top of a table, with room all around.

Also changed thermal paste+pads for one original model, it helped for a while but noise came back.

So so far I have observed 10-15 original &pro models total, and none were so silent that I would call em quiet/fine for gaming.

So either I am super unlucky, or most ps4s are loud.

We dont have air cons or other noise sources at Finland usually, so maybe that is one reason as there is not much of ambient noises around.

I also have switch = it is also clearly audible on docked mode while playing Zelda, from 3-4m away. I would call it quiet, but not silent.

So if switch is so easily audible, I do not trust the claim that they cant hear their ps4 or there is another factor like living next to a motor way without windows :p

Because even switch that is maybe 20-35dB max is easily audible, how could ps4 with 50-65dB be silent?

Too bad that sony could not make these more silent, as it is only thing that annoys me on the console(s).
Fixed your post for you.
 
My criteria for dismissing an anecdote is when it defies statistical logic.:LOL:
 
Hands down the noisiest system I ever used was a launch period 360. With both fans pegged at max and the DVD drive spinning at 16x (with no sound insulation to speak of), being in the room with it was surreal.

True story: if you put a sound meter next to it, the needle hit "absolute motherfucker".
 
I've had solid inductors whine on me myself, a mate of mine has a new MSI GF1080 card that whines, and there's tons more example on the web, sadly. It's just luck that decides if you get one that makes noise; bad luck, that is... Ugh.
They often look like filled but most of the ferrite ones (tall matte black cubish) are just a coil inserted in a (ferrite) box. If you desolder them you'd see an exposed coil. It's a crap shot if they put enough resin, usually it's just a dab, regardless there will be an air pocket in the bottom. The grey flat square ones are almost always "formed" so they can't have that problem. Quite bigger for the same value or esr though. Some GPU and server motherboard are using those, I'm guessing your MB/GPU that whine were using the black ferrite ones.
 
I'm guessing your MB/GPU that whine were using the black ferrite ones.
Yeah, maybe, but according to ASUS it's supposed to be solid inductors, not just a box, maybe properly potted and maybe not. :p

I suppose they COULD be lying to me, but that'd be dumb, considering it's an easy thing to check. It would also mean false advertising, maybe lawsuits and whatnot.
 
Yeah, maybe, but according to ASUS it's supposed to be solid inductors, not just a box, maybe properly potted and maybe not. :p

I suppose they COULD be lying to me, but that'd be dumb, considering it's an easy thing to check. It would also mean false advertising, maybe lawsuits and whatnot.
Well technically they are all solid, some are more solid that others. The formed ones are still resin/ceramic holding the coil together.

The word solid is truly only applicable for caps anyway, to differentiate from electrolytics.
 
What they said is that the thing is literally supposed to be a solid ferrite block, sintered around the copper coil. But whatevs. It whines; you can't do anything about it...
 
My PS4 got frickin' loud in the Summer, and that's in the UK. I imagine in typically hotter countries it's constantly, intrusively noisy. This is one place two SKU would definitely be worth it, with a high-end, low noise extra quality console for enthusiasts.
 
What they said is that the thing is literally supposed to be a solid ferrite block, sintered around the copper coil. But whatevs. It whines; you can't do anything about it...
Not illegal, it's like ceramic cooking pans... It's just plastic with mineral particles, but since the particles are inorganic and non metallic, they call it ceramic coated.

And military pure grade oxygen free copper cables... Otherwise known as... copper. :runaway:
 
It's not really pressurized, it's the static pressure needed for the air to move at all. Same thing happens with axial. It's a very low actual pressure if you look at the graphs.

Think of it like a syringe, the static pressure is gigantic, but when you squeeze it, it's only enough to get the air out at a steady rate.

Or an HEPA air filter which restrict air, but there is no noise cause by the different pressure between the back and front of the filter. The motor need to spin up to compensate.
I'm not sure if I'm following correctly. When I think static pressure, I'm thinking pressure at rest state. Solids have higher static pressure, then say liquids do, which has more pressure than say gasses do. Is this what we're referring to? If so, then yes I agree, the more static pressure, the less likely you'll get any sound since it's not moving much. If you get a lot of velocity, and things start moving, the friction between the particles should cause there to be noise. If everything is moving uniformly in 1 direction, I can get there being no noise, but once it interacts with something not moving at the same speed, I'm expecting there to be noise.
 
My criteria for dismissing an anecdote is when it defies statistical logic.:LOL:

So what is statistical logic? Have any pointers to that for a non-applied mathematics graduates?
 
When do we get to the part where we start talking about good/bad engineering and the rules and realities that govern motherboard design ?

This shit is like sitting at the movies and watching a bunch of trailers of random rants while waiting for the actual content to start.

Here is my random rant:

Fuck my toaster. It needs two settings. A first piece of toast setting and setting for additional toasting because no matter where I set it. It either doesn't toast the first piece well enough or it burns the fuck out of each subsequent piece of toast.

Each morning instead of spending toast time cooking eggs or bacon I have to supervise the toaster because guess who gets to scrap off and eat the shitty burned up pieces of bread? Not my son and not my wife.
 
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When do we get to the part where we start talking about good/bad engineering and the rules and realities that govern motherboard design ?

This shit is like sitting at the movies and watching a bunch of trailers of random rants while waiting for the actual content to start.
I did my best!
 
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