Digital Foundry Retro Discussion [2018 - 2020]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Cyan, Jan 19, 2018.

  1. milk

    milk Like Verified
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    DKR was fun, but I think MK64 and CTR were the superior games.
     
  2. Cyan

    Cyan orange
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    talking on making N64 games run at a stable 60 fps, someone has managed to achieve that with Super Mario 64.

    "Mario tinkerer extraordinaire Kaze Emanuar has come up with an improved way to run Mario 64 at a silky-smooth 60FPS, in widescreen.

    While that sounds like an easy thing to do —just double the frame rate!—doing that speeds up everything (the game originally ran at between 20-30fps), so Kaze had to do some tricks like only triggering the game’s physics every second frame and interpolating the camera’s position so that it’s always in the right spot.

    The mod itself isn’t new, but previous versions had some issues; this one is pretty much good to go.

    The result is this very modern-looking version of Mario 64, which is exactly what you’d want from an official remaster (make sure to toggle 1010p/60fps in YouTube’s settings):

    If you want to try it out, there are download instructions on that video’s YouTube page."

    https://kotaku.com/heres-super-mario-64-running-at-60fps-in-widescreen-hd-1827434301

    This video again shows the difference between 30 and 60 fps.

     
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  3. OCASM

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    A couple more:



     
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  4. OCASM

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  5. Cyan

    Cyan orange
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    nice! since I am on a metered connection I downloaded the video using 4k Video Downloader, so I can watch it offline knowing how much data I used to download it.

    Water wise, as a kid I liked Donkey Kong Country water and Super Mario World water looked just....ok. Unreal 1 water also looked good to me. The water in Quake -as amazing and almost perfect game it was-, never looked realistic to me, nor did Doom's water. Crysis water was in an entirely new league.

    My favourite water though is the water from Kung Fu Panda, it looks real!



    Super Mario Sunshine water too.

    And modded Skyrim water. Those 3 games imho have the best water effects.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Shifty Geezer

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    They give the nod to Dark Alliance - I approve!
     
  7. Karamazov

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    PS1 special mention, not talked in the video


     
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  8. Cyan

    Cyan orange
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    btw, does anyone know what is the song that sounds from 6:50 into the video on? I heard it a LOT of times, listening to MIDI files or editing them, but I can't quite remember. Sounds like Mario or Sonic to me -more like Sonic-.
     
  9. Karamazov

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  10. milk

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    I love these "Unlikely Heroes". Games where you wouldn't expect to have great tech, and yet, there is these one or two bits that are surprisingly good. We already have a thread for that don't we? Kung fu Panda definetly is a worthy participant for that one!
     
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  11. vipa899

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    Why did DF say that the Xbox and GC versions water looked inferior, while the xbox and PS2 versions water look exactly the same and behave the same (theres many reviews and comparisons). Its the GC version thats lacking in this and perhaps other regards.
     
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  12. steveOrino

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    Wave Race was truly the "game changer" in terms of graphics and gameplay for water. One of the first titles to play nearly flawlessly on the UltraHLE emulator + Voodoo Glide with the added bonus of overcoming the framerate issues of the n64 hardware. It was quite the experience to play it that way for the time.
     
  13. vipa899

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    Is it DF being towards Sony products or didnt they do any research regarding baldurs gate on the 6th gens? They just assumed things there it seems :)
     
  14. Mobius1aic

    Mobius1aic Quo vadis?
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    Definitely a highlight for the PS1, if not the best water in any game on the system? I'd like to see it as a wireframe mesh in emulation for comparison to Wave Race 64. Obviously the N64 game runs at slower FPS but also puts more rendering time into the rest of the environment that Crash Bandicoot 3 is clearly avoiding.
     
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  15. Shifty Geezer

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    The XBox version is visibly less detailed than the PS2 version in that clip. It has less high-frequency detail, more discernible after the player has been running around in water for a bit (3:18).
     
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  16. Karamazov

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    i would have liked to see their tech expanded to a full fledged jet ski game.
    Rapid Racer was running at smooth 60fps but the water was pretty static, that was really weird.
     
  17. vipa899

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    Hmm perhaps, if you say so :p Never noticed any difference between the two, have both on original hardware on the same tv. Played both dark alliance 1/2 and D&D heroes which seems to have the same engine? Anyway the xbox clearly should be able to replicate the game, probally a PS2 port to the xbox and GC.
     
  18. Sonic

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    How closely did you watch the water scene in the video you posted? Seems to me there's something extra going on in the PS2 version that's absent from the Xbox version.
     
  19. Shifty Geezer

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    If you don't watch them side-by-side, you'd probably not notice because the XB version moves the same. However, in that video, its very apparent that the XB version has less detail. You should be able to see it yourself! The PS2 water is much bumpier. We've discussed this water before on B3D and it was, I believe, the only game to max out VU0. The water generated massive massive polycounts, but the dev discussing this at the time said the rest of the polygon performance was mediocre.

    I think the PS2 version is higher res as well. The PS2 version was rendered with 2x supersampling. In that video (and I'm going by that video alone), the aliasing is more noticeable on the characters to me. The texture work is smoother on XB but then it had working texture filtering. ;)

    So I think DF are right here. PS2 is rendered in higher quality (2x SSAA) and with better water.
     
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  20. vipa899

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    Thanks for highlighting this, had to look twice/pause but theres indeed more 'ripples' in the ps2 version. Unexpected to see ps2 having the highest resolution too :)

    So yeah DF has right, good they see small differences like that in old games.

    Did the dev ever mention why the xbox version was inferior? As for gc i can understand.
     
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