Digital Foundry Retro Discussion [2018 - 2020]

Bloom was considered to be a partial solution to pixel crawl (jaggies/aliasing) during that generation. As stated in the video, the PS2 version ran at a lower resolution than the Xbox version. When it came time for the Xbox port, they probably considered it unnecessary.
IMO it wasn't necessary for any game, ever.
 
Yeah perfectly readable now :)
Which screen do you have if that's not asking much? I've seen that issue mentioned on some of my posts but everything looked fine in my end.

Also why does the xbox og version miss this bloom effect thats on the ps2? Allways thought they did the PS2 game then ported to other platforms, or is the xbox version more in common to the GC version?
DF highlighed both things but he didnt have a clue as to why.
From reading the article -I am waiting to watch the video til Vodafone bring my 80GB of internet data per month back-, my only guess is that the PS2 eDRAM might give the PS2 an advantage when it comes those effects. The Xbox version already ran at a superior resolution and better framerate, which is very important.

I only missed the GC version in article, but it's ok.

The impact of resolution alone and 4k is one of the most transformative in videogames. I purchased a Mini DisplayPort to DisplayPort cable to connect my laptop -which is plenty capable with 16GB of RAM and a decent CPU and GPU- to my desktop's 4k native screen. As much as I like the 1080p IPS native of my laptop, I miss the sheer crispness of a 4k screen, not to mention it's field of vision. It's like night and day. Too bad that my 4k monitor doesnt have IPS technology, but I can live with that.
 
Bloom was considered to be a partial solution to pixel crawl (jaggies/aliasing) during that generation. As stated in the video, the PS2 version ran at a lower resolution than the Xbox version. When it came time for the Xbox port, they probably considered it unnecessary.
IMO it wasn't necessary for any game, ever.
your post reminds me of this...

https://www.resetera.com/threads/a-look-back-at-the-fuckload-of-bloom-era.28756/

The games were I enjoyed bloom to some extent were Oblivion (this game was one of the first to use HDR + AA, something only possible on ATi hardware at the time, iirc) and Burnout 3 Takedown. So..they did use it to hide jaggies? That's an interesting theory.
 
Which screen do you have if that's not asking much? I've seen that issue mentioned on some of my posts but everything looked fine in my end.

I was reading that on an 22" lg tn 1080p screen / pc. Text was too 'bright'. On my phone now.
 
So..they did use it to hide jaggies? That's an interesting theory.
I doubt that was the original motivating factor. But look at the increasing number of games that used it. It does help to obscure the appearance of heavily aliased visuals. So I'm fairly certain plenty of devs said, "Hey, why not?".
Regarding the non-bloom in Xbox SSX3, it's certainly not because the Xbox lacked that ability. The Splinter Cell games on OG Xbox were bathed in bloom.
 
Bloom is a simulation of what happens in optics with bright light sources. Used correctly, it adds a sense a brilliance. For example, it's essential for Infamous Second Son.
PREVIEW_SCREENSHOT2_56814.jpg


Without bloom, all those light sources would just look like flat, coloured shapes. When used badly, either not selectively applying to the highlights enough enough and blurring everything, or used deliberately as haze, bloom mostly washed out graphics.
 
Bloom can reduce contrast on high contrast edges, somewhat hiding the appearance of aliasing.

I think it can add a lot to an image, but used poorly it can sort of fuck everything up.

Edit: yep, as Shifty say, "used deliberately as haze". I would also add "indiscriminately" to that!
 
Didnt even notice the bloom until DF highlighted it, been playing ssx 3 now and then the past 15 years on both platforms. It doesnt strike me as something not-possible on og xbox. Just strange they didnt port it over like the higher quality video clips from the ps2 version.

In Tricky the ps2 version had some snow falling off the board after a jump that didnt translate to xbox or gc either, minimal but strange.
Are DF developers or coders themselfs? They seem to know what they talk about.
 
Any idea why the xbox og version shipped with very low quality bit-rate videoclips? Didnt both consoles have dual layer dvd drives?
Also why does the xbox og version miss this bloom effect thats on the ps2? Allways thought they did the PS2 game then ported to other platforms, or is the xbox version more in common to the GC version?
DF highlighed both things but he didnt have a clue as to why.
FMV was generally better on PS2 because Sony included a hardware MPEG2 decoder in the IPU. I've never seen any performance numbers on how fast the IPU was at decoding video, but IIRC in the DF Retro video about Silent Hill 2 they say the FMV runs at 60FPS. That's crazy for the release year (2000).

On XBox there were 2 issues with FMV. First, decoding wasn't 100% hardware. Not a huge issue because the NV2A and CPU were fast enough to decode FMV at 30FPS. I have no idea if they could handle 60FPS. Second, MPEG isn't a free technology. Licensing fees were involved, and while Microsoft spared no expense with the hardware of the original XBox, they did a bit on licensing. That's why they required customers to buy a dvd playback kit to play DVDs. The playback kit was $30, and the licensing fee for MPEG and/or DVD playback was $30. There wasn't any hardware in the kit that enabled playback, it was just an IR receiver and a remote that the hardware checked for before enabling DVD playback.

With that said, games usually shipped with the FMV encoded via less expensive codecs. There weren't any viable free codecs back then that I can remember. Bink was probably the most popular on XB, but I do think a few had video encoded with DivX and games by Sega used Softdec, which I think is an MPEG variant. I assume they used the other codecs to avoid paying MPEG licensing fees. I also think there wasn't a lot of care encoding the FMVs because there are plenty of XBox games that have noticeably inferior FMV.

Bloom can be fillrate or bandwith heavy effects, depending on how they are rendered. PS2 had more bandwidth and fillrate than Xbox and Gamecube so it's an effect that's less expensive on PS2.
 
Then ps2 has the advantage there with hardware mpeg2 decoder. Still abit low quality in xbox ssx3 clips, could have been better most would think. Xbox with xbmc can play up to 720p divx movies fine, if thats any indication. Is there a way to test 60 fps fmv's? On xbmc everything seems to run off the cpu. Cant test hd on ps2 but from what ive read the xbox is more capable but that could be cause xbmc is more supported/developed. If im correct ps2 sms is using vector units.

As for bloom there was much of it in more complex games like chaos theory, maybe its what ERP said, that devs had to do an xbox port quick and performance never was a problem, just upp the resolution abit etc. Would be strange if og xbox couldnt do ssx3 with a little bloom. Could be the reason fmvs where ultra low quality.
 
Sega did everything first.

Nomad was overly ambitious, under resourced, and it murdered batteries.

Buy god, it was an exciting device though.
Yes, body movement detection, internet access, online service, colored and lit up screens in handheld devices, portable TVs, stereoscopic 3D and maybe so many other things I cant remember, ...Sega tried so many things too early for their own good...the technology just wasnt ready for effective and cost efficient implementation. All of these are standard today
 
Don't forget a primitive version of the Ipad, albeit one that had to be plugged into the tv and was aimed squarely at young kids.
 
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Loved SSX 3, and Tricky too. Cool that they do a remake on current generation.
Thanks DF for this video, couldnt be better, loved 6th gen and SSX at that!
Your post is very hard to read on my screen :p

And the best thing is, it's not a remake. :) So, if you have the original Xbox disk, you can play it without buying it again.

Regards,
SB
 
i still have mine.

Wish I still had mine, and I still remember getting it for Christmas '95. Luckily my parents had the foresight to buy the rechargeable battery pack and the AC Charger along with the system itself. Before I got rid of it however (2008) it was having some working problems. Sometimes it wouldn't even boot up a cart.
 
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