Digital Foundry Retro Discussion [2018 - 2019]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Cyan, Jan 19, 2018.

  1. Mobius1aic

    Mobius1aic Quo vadis?
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2007
    Messages:
    1,649
    Likes Received:
    244
    In an NES! :runaway:

    Yeah I agree, it's not really using the NES except for power delivery and as a pass through, much in contrast to add-in chips.
     
  2. dogen

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    259
    It's still going through the PPU though.
     
  3. milk

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,952
    Likes Received:
    2,514
    Crackdown 3 also doesn't work on xbox one. It's the cloud.

    Silly joke.
     
  4. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    40,611
    Likes Received:
    11,043
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    It was a SNES game is so much as it was released by Nintendo for the SNES. But it also used contemporary hardware, and wasn't it also just a CPU rather than an entire computer? This 'Doom on a SNES' isn't anything like. It's just using SNES as a video digitiser and output for a completely different machine. That's like me using a realtime video digitiser on an Amiga and piping Horizon Zero Dawn into it and claiming a 1 MB, 7 MHz 68000 is running what it takes an 8 core, 1.6 GHz (2000x faster) CPU and 1.84 teraflops of GPU (crazyx faster) to do. Very big, impressive number comparison; complete bollocks.

    This NES is not running DOOM. This NES is outputting an alternative video feed from an alternative hardware source. That's the accomplishment here.

    Edit: And this is an important distinction. If you only watch the first half of the video, you're wondering what kind of incredible optimisation made this possible, especially when the guy says it's genuine. Of course, no amount of optimisation can make that possible, but it means misunderstanding retro gaming hardware and software if people are going to palm modern technology off as retro by slapping it in a retro looking case.

    To truly understand hardware, we need to see what devs are doing with that actual hardware, to show how far hardware can be truly pushed with modern software thinking. The true modern achievements on old hardware are astounding enough themselves without these con-jobs making them look weak-sauce by comparison.
     
    #444 Shifty Geezer, Jun 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
    Cyan and BRiT like this.
  5. jlippo

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,329
    Likes Received:
    425
    Location:
    Finland
    Indeed, this is similar to the Doom is running on oscillator.
     
    BRiT likes this.
  6. dogen

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    259
    Yeah, but I have a suspicion that Doom on SNES was also doing almost as little as possible on SNES as well (other than controller input, sound and maybe the HUD). Hard to find concrete info on it, but the enemy AI breaks when you overclock the superFX too much and the input lag is extremely high (18-20 frames).

    Sure it's still not 1:1 comparable with a raspberry pi running the game. But I also don't think it's completely different either.
     
    milk likes this.
  7. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    40,611
    Likes Received:
    11,043
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    Well in that case it'd be more appropriate to correct people claiming SNES was running DOOM than to conceded any piece of hardware running through a cart port to the display constitutes a part of the system. Either DOOM isn't running on a NES and wasn't running on a SNES, or DOOM isn't working on a NES and was running on a SNES, but whichever is decided upon, DOOM is not in any way running on a NES!
     
    milk likes this.
  8. milk

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,952
    Likes Received:
    2,514
    Not that getting an external chip to run from a NES cartrige and find a way to display it's generated graphics and sound through it's PPU is not an interesting engineering feat of its own. But yeah, comparing NES's specs with Doom's system requirements is just plain silly.
     
  9. Cyan

    Cyan orange
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    8,572
    Likes Received:
    2,290
    new DF Retro...., with a different touch. They play Castlevania 64 for the N64.

    While Castlevania IV is my favourite of the series, and I also liked SOTN, the N64 games would be my next favourite games in the series. I completed both Castlevania games on the N64 via emulation a few years ago and I liked those games enough to keep me hooked and wanting to complete them, which I did.

    The version where Dracula is a kid was a very original touch, imho.

     
  10. Cyan

    Cyan orange
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    8,572
    Likes Received:
    2,290
    this is what the press said about SOTN and Castlevania at the time

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    40,611
    Likes Received:
    11,043
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    What press? Nintendo User?
     
    Cyan likes this.
  12. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    11,331
    Likes Received:
    1,790
    The 90s were very raw with their claims :lol:
     
  13. milk

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,952
    Likes Received:
    2,514
    Outch, that article didn't age well now did it.
    Personally I never managed to get through the overly verbose intro of Symphony, but I know its lauded as a classic of the series and the MetroidVania genre as a whole. While Castlevania 64 gets youtube videos saying it's not THAT bad afterall...

    And while at it, I fail to see what John saw in that game. He calls the stiff and janky animation excellent, when most other games that year were dabbing in MoCap with much more fluid results. He compliments the controlls as he misses a jump. He says the gameplay is fun as he fumbles through enemies and buttonmashes his way against the boss while being hit multiple times. Everything about the game, while not necessarely horrible, is quintessentially mediocre, even for the low bar of ps1/n64 3d games. Maybe it gets more bashing than it would if if were not Castlevania, but it still surely does not need to be picked up and remembered as if it were a forgotten jewl. Gem it is not, more like a plastic bracelet that now is discolorated and a bit moldy as well.
    Sometimes really don't know what is it that some retrogamers like about gaming at all.
     
  14. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    11,331
    Likes Received:
    1,790
    I was impressed by the daytime changes in the video but other than that I agree with you. There is nothing else I found impressive. To be honest I find the footage below mediocre. There were games that easily put this into shame. Especially with games like Super Mario before it I have no idea how anyone would find this game good.
     
  15. Cyan

    Cyan orange
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    8,572
    Likes Received:
    2,290
    perhaps it was because I was unbiased and just wanted to play N64 roms -loved Diddy Kong Racing to death- but years ago when I wanted to play other Castlevania games rather than the ones I had finished -Castlevania IV, SOTN, and Rondo of Blood-, I decided to try other Castlevania games and both games for the N64 were a breath of fresh air.

    Both games were enjoyable enough for me to want completing them. Something I can't really say about other games I tried, which are many. Some of them highly regarded games, yet these Castlevania 64 versions managed to get me hooked. I used a Gamefaqs guide tbh.

    I remember finding the camera a bit annoying, but I got used to it. They don't beat SOTN or Castlevania IV quality wise, in fact Metroidvania games influenced by SOTN made SOTN become a genre, so to say. But they played differently enough, it's not bad for a first try of Konami in 3D.

    Some time ago I mentioned how SOTN was badly treated and received in reviews, including the review of PlayStation magazine which scored it with a 7 'cos it wasn't 3D...., scoring games nobody ever remembers with almost a 9 in the same issue, yet nowadays iit is considered a timeless classic.
     
  16. Cyan

    Cyan orange
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    8,572
    Likes Received:
    2,290
    eloyc likes this.
  17. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    7,100
    Likes Received:
    1,279
    Cyan and AzBat like this.
  18. Dictator

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    272
  19. eloyc

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,972
    Likes Received:
    1,152
    Cyan, AlBran and Dictator like this.
  20. seahorsesaw

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2017
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    19
    [​IMG]
    I suppose you could add Sexist, Transphobic etc to that list.
     
    Mobius1aic, AlBran and milk like this.
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...