Digital Foundry: Microsoft Xbox One X & S supports Freesync 2 [2017-04-11]

[dobwal]

is FreeSync 2 backwards compatible with the original FreeSync? I mean, if you buy a FreeSync 2 device like a new PC or console that support it, and you have a FreeSync monitor, you can still get the basic benefits of Freesync sans HDR and so on, right?

Except for a big surprise I wont be getting a HDR monitor any time soon, especially because of price and 'cos HDR quality varies and reading carefully between the lines seems a must.

All current FreeSync compatible gpus will support FreeSync 2 and AMD expects both FreeSync and FreeSync 2 to coexist. Expect FreeSync 2 to be limited to top end monitors especially for the short term. FS 2 has a stringent certification process and AMD wants FS 2 to become synonymous with "premium".

The biggest issue I have with FS 2 is dev support. With FS, all a game needed to do is support full screen, but FS 2 require devs to support the FS 2 API so that the game itself can tone map to the characteristics of your fs2 monitor. Thereby reducing lag because the additional tone mapping step done by the monitor is bypassed. If devs don't widely adopt FS2 as a feature, then a subset of FS2 features become moot.

 

[Cyan]

an article on which is better to play if you have a console, a TV or a PC monitor.

http://www.windowscentral.com/pc-monitor-or-tv-your-xbox-one?

 

[Scott_Arm]

an article on which is better to play if you have a console, a TV or a PC monitor.

http://www.windowscentral.com/pc-monitor-or-tv-your-xbox-one?

This article fails to mention the most important thing ... calibration. With a tv you can actually calibrate the screen correctly. That will improve visuals more than pretty much anything else. Unless your monitor has a really amazing calibration out of the box for HDTV content, it's not going to look good relative to a calibrated tv. Most monitors don't even allow you to adjust black-level with onscreen controls. Their brightness setting changes the backlight, vs changing the black-level as it would on a tv.

I think some monitors have hardware luts that you can calibrate, so there's probably some way you can get a good picture that way. But standard gaming monitors have shit image quality in ideal circumstances, and even more shit when they're hooked up to a console and can't be calibrated.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

There is a korean brand that sells 40-55" TVs that support FreeSync, the Wasabi Mango models.
Thing is they released in 2015 so I think they only support Freesync through Displayport.

Regardless, if the owners of these TVs manage to get Freesync working with Scorpio, it'll be a great surprise for them.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

There is a korean brand that sells 40-55" TVs that support FreeSync, the Wasabi Mango models.
Thing is they released in 2015 so I think they only support Freesync through Displayport.

Regardless, if the owners of these TVs manage to get Freesync working with Scorpio, it'll be a great surprise for them.

Those aren't TV's, they're monitors. The key distinction being there is no additional processing that is done as you would find on TVs so the input/display lag is low like a computer monitor (significantly lower than any TV on the market in game/PC mode). There's also no TV tuner built in, no cable inputs, no antenna inputs, etc. That's to be expected as it has a monitor control board rather than a TV control and processing board.

I've got the 49" version of that. Adaptive sync is only available over DP.

Regards,
SB

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Those aren't TV's, they're monitors. The key distinction being there is no additional processing that is done as you would find on TVs so the input/display lag is low like a computer monitor (significantly lower than any TV on the market in game/PC mode).

Well I haven't seen any truly conclusive input lag tests of that Wasapi Mango, but user tests have put it around 20-30ms. My Tv has 22ms of input lag, so your statement is likely incorrect.

 

[Arnold Beckenbauer]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11740...e-live-blog-930am-pt-430pm-utc#post0821124454

12:44PM EDT - DP 1.2a, HDMI 2.0b, HDCP 2.2, two stream MST

https://www.heise.de/newsticker/mel...Scorpio-Prozessor-der-Xbox-One-X-3809062.html

The Scorpio Engine doesn't not support native HDMI und uses (older) DP 1.2a instead. They do it, because HDMI needs higher voltages than DP.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/d/xbox-one-x-1tb-console-project-scorpio-edition/8ZJH508RNQL0

2160p @ 60Hz
AMD FreeSync
HDMI Variable Refresh Rate (when ratified)

There will be a firmware upgrade from HDMI 2.x to 2.1?

 

[Arnold Beckenbauer]

Any news on Xbox One X and FreeSync (not VRR)?

 

[Scott_Arm]

Freesync is coming in the next week or so. Freesync 2 over HDMI on One S and One X. Nice feature. Not sure how many freesync over HDMI screens are out there.

They're also adding auto-low latency mode from HDMi 2.1 soon. Won't be usable until 2.1 displays are out.

 

[Arnold Beckenbauer]

Freesync is coming in the next week or so. Freesync 2 over HDMI on One S and One X. Nice feature. Not sure how many freesync over HDMI screens are out there.

They're also adding auto-low latency mode from HDMi 2.1 soon. Won't be usable until 2.1 displays are out.

https://www.windowscentral.com/new-...ring-amd-freesync-and-auto-low-latency-coming

That's nice for S owners.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Freesync is coming in the next week or so. Freesync 2 over HDMI on One S and One X. Nice feature. Not sure how many freesync over HDMI screens are out there.

They're also adding auto-low latency mode from HDMi 2.1 soon. Won't be usable until 2.1 displays are out.

Plenty if you buy a monitor (I have a 49" 4k monitor that supports FreeSync/AdaptiveSync and this maker makes 55" ones as well). I imagine Samsung and LG will be first to release a TV with FreeSync/AdaptiveSync as both are heavy supporters of the tech.

Regards,
SB

 

[Metal_Spirit]

Scorpio is hdmi 2.1. Supports freesync.

Scorpio is not HDMI 2.1... It´s HDMI 2.0...
Is supports some HDMI 2.1 features by firmware update.

As stated by Nick Baker, General Manager for Xbox Architectural Design:

“On the display output, of course, HDMI 2.0 – we need that for the additional frame-rate for 4K and also HDR and the wide colour gamut,” Baker said. “In addition, we have always believed in having flexible output processing with three output planes so you can have your render target, your overlay dash and video playing. Each one of those has symmetric capabilities in terms of being able to run sampling, so we have a high quality multi-tap filter. As an example, if you render at 4K and you’re going to a 1080p TV, you can use that to do a high-quality sample.”

Xbox One S, PS4 Pro and PS4 can also support Freesync. The original Xbox cannot!

 

[BRiT]

Feature has been released to Xbox Alpha Insiders.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I was looking at this LG monitor because it supports freesync over hdmi and lg's strobing at 60Hz (also 100, 120, 144Hz I think). Would be nice to have both options. The only thing is right now I'd prefer a 1440p at 27" as a stop gap for a new tv.

I'm not really sure how freesync's low framerate compensation works, or if this monitor supports it. For 30Hz games, you'd obviously need it, because I don't think freesync works that low on almost any monitors.

http://www.lg.com/uk/monitors/lg-24GM79G

The other thing I'm not sure about ... Do games have to do anything to support this? Games force vsync, which you'd want off, correct? Can the OS undermine that and force it to be disabled without having to issue patches?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I was looking at this LG monitor because it supports freesync over hdmi and lg's strobing at 60Hz (also 100, 120, 144Hz I think). Would be nice to have both options. The only thing is right now I'd prefer a 1440p at 27" as a stop gap for a new tv.

I'm not really sure how freesync's low framerate compensation works, or if this monitor supports it. For 30Hz games, you'd obviously need it, because I don't think freesync works that low on almost any monitors.

http://www.lg.com/uk/monitors/lg-24GM79G

The other thing I'm not sure about ... Do games have to do anything to support this? Games force vsync, which you'd want off, correct? Can the OS undermine that and force it to be disabled without having to issue patches?

Yeah support for 30hz and lower is certainly problematic. More reason for MS to encourage 60 FPS options for games, especially on XBO-X even if the game can't maintain 60 FPS. Alternatively encourage unlocked modes with FPS greater than say 40 or 45.

Regards,
SB

 

[Scott_Arm]

Sounds like LFC is a feature on the GPU, so unless One X/S do LFC then it'll be hard to cover situations below 30Hz.

So far this AOC monitor is one of the "best fits" I can find. 27" 1440p with freesync over hdmi down to 30Hz, I think. It's actually difficult to find the specs about which monitors support freesync over hdmi. A bunch of the LG monitors do, but they're mostly 1080p. You have to read the manual. Some of these companies don't even publish the low end frequency of their freesync/adaptive sync. Really dumb. http://us.aoc.com/product_feature.php?id=16

 

[Scott_Arm]

Found out AMD has a handy tool that makes it easy to find freesync over hdmi monitors

https://www.amd.com/en/products/freesync-monitors

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Found out AMD has a handy tool that makes it easy to find freesync over hdmi monitors

https://www.amd.com/en/products/freesync-monitors

Just be aware that's just FreeSync certified monitors, not all monitors that support AdaptiveSync (the VESA standard of which FreeSync is just AMDs certification of it). For example, my Wasabi Mango monitor isn't on the list because it's a 2nd tier Korean monitor maker that didn't pay for certification. It does work on my monitor however as it conforms to the AdaptiveSync standard.

Of course, going with a certified monitor is likely the safest way to ensure compatibility.

Regards,
SB

 

[Rangers]

Personally I'm kinda thinking this is definitely not a feature worth waiting for for me. My brother got a Gsync monitor and didn't seem that enamored with the Gsync when I asked him about it. I've read a few similar comments online. People saying they cant tell the difference...

In addition with the low 30/60 FPS of consoles (where adaptive sync is apparently less relevant anyway), their tendency to at least kind of stick to solid 30/60, and my general insensitivity to framerate.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Personally I'm kinda thinking this is definitely not a feature worth waiting for for me. My brother got a Gsync monitor and didn't seem that enamored with the Gsync when I asked him about it. I've read a few similar comments online. People saying they cant tell the difference...

The real difference would be something like a fixed 40 Hz. A consistent 40 Hz is smoother than 30 Hz but only if your monitor can display it - it'd look horribly stuttery on a normal TV.

Also some people are so crass as to be immune to the stutter! They don't hack or shed tears whenever a movie pans across a vista. These people's opinions aren't to be trusted.