Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2020]

Not 100% sure but I don't think you can turn it off. Pretty sure that was stated in a review.

 

Can you not disable the network so it doesn't update and install the XBox One X version on the console?

 

But it's not always lagging behind the XBO-X (the XBO-S is the console it is replacing). For many titles, it's outperforming the XBO-X, but in some titles it doesn't.

Again, this is entirely due to how much of an uplift a GPU limited game designed for the previous generation gets from going from GCN to RDNA 2. If the uplift is below a certain point the XBS-S will perform worse. If it's above a certain point the XBS-S will perform better.

And if it's CPU limited, the XBS-S will blow away the XBO-X.

Again, they are similar in performance when GPU limited not the same. But due to the variability of how much benefit older code gets from using RDNA 2 instead of GCN determines which one it will run faster on. So, on some titles it'll be faster while on some other titles, it'll run slower.

This is like the argument back between NV and AMD fans when they both competed at the high end. AMD would be faster in ~50% of the titles and NV would be faster in ~50% the titles. But if you were a fan of NV you would say that AMD was slower by picking which titles you wanted to look at, and the same would go for AMD fans.

Again, they are similar not the same.

Regards,
SB

 

There is no way to get XSS to run games in Xbox One X mode because the hardware is weaker in some areas running GCN code. Its basically getting only 4tflop vs 6tflop and less bandwidth

 

Something I just thought about. Why didn't MS go the PS5 DE route and create a XBSX DE version instead and sell that at $399?

Surely that would have been a better option than the XBSS is at this point in time. Then they could have boasted that the XBSX DE was more powerful than the PS5 DE.

 

Likely because 399 is not 299 (it's only 100 USD difference, but that can mean the difference between a small number of sales and a relatively large number of sales). But the biggest factor is why take a loss selling a 499 machine at 399 if they can just design a 299 machine to sell at 299?

Regards,
SB

 

The way it was explained by Phil Spencer was that basically RDNA 2 gains are about 25% per TF. So that puts the SX at 5TF vs 6TF in the 1X but when you start to look at new games that are using DirectX Raytracing, Mesh Shaders, Sampler Feedback and Variable Rate Shading etc it should outperform the One X. Also the fact that it supports all those things along with a much better CPU, are the exact reason it shouldn't hold back the XBSX where the One X would. That and the SX is actually cheaper to produce for MS.

 

because they will never be able to sell a digital edition series x at $200, but they certainly will be able to sell a series s that low eventually

 

As Spencer has said, the needed the high and low end consoles out at the same time. It ensures developer support.

 

Last time I looked 1S was selling for around $300.
I expect that to change though. How much have you seen it for?

Regarding GDK.
Some one mentioned that both SDK's will improve.
Sure, but it's a matter of one having more room for improvement compared to the other.

I think some people like to see things in very combative terms.
I've not seen anybody describe the GDK as some kind of secret sauce that when it's resolved its going to be 30% faster than it is now. That's just them parsing it through their own filters.

 

But as Silent_Budda said, it has a faster CPU, faster GDDR6 memory albeit 2GB less and the GPU was supposedly supposed to run like a 6TF GCN1.1 GPU.

My OP though still stands afaik. The XBSS will have limitations when designing next-gen game for the XB Series. I also understand that devs can work around it. But it's still a limitation in my opinion.

 

Do we know if the XBSS is a $299 machine? It's BOM is definitely less than the XBSX, but is it $299?

The PS5 disk edition is $450 as per the CFO. Yes advertising and boxing etc. might rise that price closer to the $500 mark but would still suggest it's cheaper than $500 which the PS5 sells for. Last time I had a look the PS5 was outselling the PS5 DE, what was it Brit posted 176% or something similar. So it's smart business from Sony imo. The XBSS for MS, not so smart imo but I can see the value it brings. It just doesn't bring the performance.. again imo.

 

I think it's well known that GDK isn't where Microsoft wants it and while both consoles are more feature-packed than any previous consoles at launch, I bet neither are anywhere near as optimised in terms of firmware and OS as Microsoft and Sony would like.

But I am not surprised that PS5 will trump Series X in some scenarios, some code/data access patterns will simply favour it's thinner/faster GPU setup with it's "rising tide" cache/ROPs. Sometimes slower hardware on paper turns out better performance in the real world. An example of this from the PS4/XBO generation that also sticks with me is how Fallout 4 Far Harbour had more solid frame rate on Xbox One than the more powerful PS4 because - it was speculated - the fog effects really benefited from eDRAM bandwidth.

What blows my mind, like entering every new generation, is that the games we're looking at now - as beautiful as they are - will pale in comparison with what we'll see next year, then the year after that and so on. There are no real technical deficits this gen, we have powerful CPUs, powerful GPUs, plenty of RAM and fast storage. It feels like neither Microsoft or Sony were not willing to make many compromises.

This is going to be a good generation.

 

No! Spencer seemed to impy that they wanted a cheaper console out to compete against the PS5, yes it would be a low end console but he implied the cheaper console was designed to compete against the more expensive PS5 DE.

https://www.videogameschronicle.com...eries-s-will-end-up-outselling-xbox-series-x/

Still having a cheaper XBSX DE Edition would have been a better competitor to the PS5 DE no doubt.

 

Do you find it as funny as Sony still selling PS4 while the PS5 DE is just $100 more?

Microsoft is only selling Xbox OneS until they transition over inventory.

 

Series S would had to have been in the works for a long time whereas the PS5DE was probably a call Sony make this year which nobody outside Sony could have known. It's an identical specification PS5 minus the ODD. Even devs would not have been aware. This is the kind of change you can do really late, like PS4 shipping with 8Gb GDDR5.

 

Yes, we don't need the GPU to make up for an anemic CPU anymore. So, developers don't need to try to find ways to make the GPU do CPU work like they did with the previous generation. This also means that use of the CPU is much less constrained, we'll hopefully see what developers can do if they choose to push the CPU. Open world games should benefit from this in a big way.

And audio, I really REALLY hope audio starts to advance again like it did back in the late 90's when we had hardware accelerated positional audio and effects. I really REALLY hate that audio has for the most part been stagnant for over 25 freaking years now. AUUUUUGGGGGHHHHHH.

This generation has the potential to totally blow us away with correct audio in games and I really hope it happens.

Also, if Watch Dogs: Legions is anything to go by, we may finally get some really good and natural looking lighting in games (with indirect lighting and thus correct shadows that take into account indirect light and directionality) this generation. This has me excited. This is the bit where RT really has potential, IMO. We'll still need mixed methods of RT + traditional, but the results can be out of this world as long as they can make them seemless mix and match unlike Metro: Exodus (UGH, horrible).

What doesn't have me excited is...RT reflections. It has to start somewhere, of course, but so far I'm somewhat dreading the way too reflective metal surfaces on cars and windows that we're already seeing. I'm dreading that potentially AAA games are going to feel the need to put water puddles everywhere. I'm already skittish about overfly reflective wet streets and surfaces that are nothing like the real world, etc.

Regards,
SB

 

No he never said or implied it was to compete with the PS5DE.
He said he expects over time that the XSS will out sell the XSX.

Like a lot if those types of things I expect the artists and designers to make reasonable use as we go on.

If RT isn't obvious people are just as likely to say what's the big deal at the start.

 

Yep, you are right.

Actually you are right. I was looking at the XBox One S AD edition which is $249. I see the One S is indeed $299.

 

It’s underperforming on Nvidia. Check out the PCGamesHardware article.