Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2019]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Shifty Geezer, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    39,907
    Likes Received:
    9,999
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    Rules of Engagement : Read before posting or run the risk of losing posting rights in the Tech Forum!

    This is principally a technical discussion thread. It is allied to the other tech analysis threads and shares the same rules as those which you should familiarise yourself with. The purpose is to discuss the findings of the Digital Foundry articles on a technical level, including the techniques employed by game developers in their games, and the comparative design decisions off cross-platform titles. Digital Foundry is more closely allied with Beyond3D than other gaming sites which is why they get special mention here! :D

    What this thread is not, is a place to complain about a port's quality and make accusations of developers, to offer feedback on the quality of the Digital Foundry writing or the writers' biases, trumpet your preferred console over the other, talk business and sales, or otherwise sidetrack the discussion from talking about the gaming technology covered in the Digital Foundry articles. If you do not post to the required standard, your posts will be removed, and persistent unwanted contributions will see you locked out of the Technology Forum.

    If you want to leave editorial feedback for Digital Foundry, the best place is to leave a comment for the relevant article(s).
     
  2. vipa899

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2017
    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    354
    Location:
    Sweden
    Not sure if it belongs here, but its DF discussion and its quit.... technical.

     
    Shortbread and Shoujoboy like this.
  3. BRiT

    BRiT (╯°□°)╯
    Moderator Legend Alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    11,502
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    Location:
    Cleveland
    First tidbits of DF Article that goes with the video: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...-is-falling-behind-but-could-shape-the-future

    How Xbox One S is falling behind - but also defining the future
    X addresses the hardcore, while S tech is set to target new audiences.

    What does the future hold for the Xbox One S? At Digital Foundry, we've noted something of a concerning trend for Microsoft's base console - while system exclusives continue to hold up well from a quality perspective, top-end third-party titles are pushing the system to its limits - with sometimes disappointing results. The question is this: if the S is losing pace with the competition, how well can it hold up in the years to come? After all, its successor is not likely to arrive until 2020.

    Let's put all of this into context. The Xbox One has always had a less capable GPU than the PlayStation 4, so the generation has typically seen the PS4 deliver resolution or frame-rate advantages over its Microsoft counterpart - this is nothing new, and the 1080p/900p divide has been in place for much of the generation. By and large, 720p vs 1080p comparisons aside, the differences only really become evident if compared both consoles directly side - so what's changed?

    There's a combination of factors in play here, but mostly, I suspect it's down to several factors - firstly, the fact is that the vanilla PlayStation 4 is effectively the base platform owing to its ginormous installed userbase. Secondly, developers are pushing that platform harder than they ever have before - so compromises in resolution in favour of features on a PS4 build have a more profound impact for the Xbox One S build. Then there's the arrival of Xbox One X - in terms of its basic nuts and bolts design, its architecture has a crucial commonality with PS4 and Pro, something the S doesn't have - a fully unified memory structure.
     
    Shortbread and Shoujoboy like this.
  4. Shoujoboy

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2008
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    32
    I actually really liked that discussion.

    I kinda wish Microsoft would get together an "Ice Team" of their own like Sony didmlast gen
    and help developers deliver great experiences on their base console.

    Because there are some games from the first party studios which definitely hold their own.
    Games like Gears Of War 4, Forza Horizon 3 & 4, Forza Motorsport 5,6, & 7 and even Quantum
    Break genuinely look fantastic.
     
  5. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
    Legend Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Messages:
    7,198
    Likes Received:
    5,468
    I think as their first party grows in size and if profitable, you may see them make something like that. Though I imagine the directX teams already play some of that role.
     
    Shoujoboy likes this.
  6. DSoup

    DSoup meh
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    10,546
    Likes Received:
    5,316
    Location:
    London, UK
    I think the mere existence of the ICE was a tacit admission by Sony that PS3's architecture was an absolute fucker to harness. If Microsoft is ever in the position that it needs an equivalent, that does not bode well! :nope:
     
    Shoujoboy, iroboto, BRiT and 3 others like this.
  7. milk

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,692
    Likes Received:
    2,173
    Like a next gen console where the only pool of memory that is not incredibly slow for any modern task constitutes less than 0.5 percent of your total memory?
     
  8. Mobius1aic

    Mobius1aic Quo vadis?
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2007
    Messages:
    1,625
    Likes Received:
    233
    Mark Cerny pretty much admitted that at his GDC and Gamelab 2013 speeches.
     
    Shoujoboy, Silent_Buddha and milk like this.
  9. metacore

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    67
    Some tools deficiency might be byproduct of corporate agenda. Lets not forget that ultimately Microsoft aims to make xbox a trojan horse for microsoft store and services and no so much dedicated platform. Easy portability between xbox and windows might be priority instead of best and most efficient solutions for given piece of hardware. Some rare quote that might touch the subject (of course it's old and there is constant development but still...)


    https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...its-really-like-to-make-a-multi-platform-game
     
    egoless, milk and Shoujoboy like this.
  10. BRiT

    BRiT (╯°□°)╯
    Moderator Legend Alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    11,502
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Citation needed.
     
    Shoujoboy likes this.
  11. metacore

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    67
    Well that wording might be a little hot takey but is't it obvious?:D Broad HW compatibility is enemy of coding to metal( oh boi) and quote above is alluding to exactly that. Clearly microsoft is going beyond xbox with gaming. Just take a look at wording of any interview with sites not directly living on console war, ecosytem, value, any devices, services and other keywords, and by the way there is that xbox if jimmy de santa still cant plug hdmi to their laptop, even vp twitter handles changed from xbox to gaming quite fast. There is only so much time corporation like microsoft can grow some division standing kinda in oposition to rest of divisions without creating any synergy ( xb, xb360). Now in Nandela era everyting is going according to long term plan as in interviwes in Dean Takahashi xbox books, first we are creating a few consoles which will be a springboard for later "brand" of services and eventual xbox/pc hybrid if that is still needed. So yeah broad xbox brand but some to the metal performance sacrifices on closed box will be necessary in order to achive that.
     
    egoless and milk like this.
  12. Scott_Arm

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,134
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    What?
     
    AlBran and chris1515 like this.
  13. BRiT

    BRiT (╯°□°)╯
    Moderator Legend Alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    11,502
    Likes Received:
    7,338
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Every successful company aims to expand their influence and profitablity. Only the companies run by fools don't. So I dont see how those original statements are pertinent to a technology based discussion.
     
    Shortbread likes this.
  14. metacore

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    67
    I don't know whats so hard to understand here (aside blunt language) especially on this board. Is this somehow concerning that fashionable narratives "ms listened and thay will do not wrong from now" or what? :).
    DF says they heard about performance problems with some tools on xb(look around end of video), so I quoted a very experienced programmer who was suggesting that some problems came from MS choosing suboptimal solution to fixed spec xb api and that solution is used for rendering on pc side, dx11 helps with broad compatibility but with performance loss. Why would they do this ? To finally please other sides of company and for easy portability of code and future services and what not, even with sacrificing some performence on console. Second post was short colorfull synopsis of their corporate motivation for that decision.

    Im glad DF had the gut to bring this topic. It really almost feels like base xbox is fading, even marketing to this day is concentrating on scorpio engine closeups, base xbs? ohh thats just minecraft bundle for kids. Maybe insted of dedicated platform better supported with every passing year they would only want some temporary halo effect pc with windows store box to build xbox "brand" where it suits, with legacy box kinda becoming "undedicated" and maybe thats precisely what lies beetween lines of "future without generations etc". From consumer perspective not a fan of that flavour of "console" strategy if thats the way going forward, seems more like scorched earth strategy and is especially interesting with rumors of lockhart and anaconda positioning.

    Agree obviously. Again Original technology discussion had question about tools, so I bring quote with one possible technology related answer and the rest is in my opinion motivation behind it which should be fairly obvious to anyone here.
     
    egoless and milk like this.
  15. milk

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,692
    Likes Received:
    2,173
    I always thought everything metacore said here was pretty much obvious to everyone.
     
    egoless, Shoujoboy and metacore like this.
  16. turkey

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    382
    I always assumed the dx11 API was half baked as dx12 was unfinished and something needed to be included when they shipped. They claimed some CPU tweaks to aid dx12 so that was planned to some extent I assume.
     
  17. Tkumpathenurpahl

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Messages:
    944
    Likes Received:
    673
    Which effects and techniques are generally diminished on the base XBoxOne compared to the base PS4, and which are likely to be in future?

    Or is resolution the only difference?
     
  18. turkey

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    382
    Onrush runs at half the framerate, 30fps instead of 60.
    Many games have slightly worse framerate on the S even with lower dynamic resolutions in play.
     
    egoless likes this.
  19. Globalisateur

    Globalisateur Globby
    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    2,650
    Likes Received:
    1,454
    Location:
    France
    Tomb Raider 2013 also runs at half the framerate on XB1, like The Witness (at an increased resolution though). Sniper Elite 3 has the same resolution but much worse framerate and lower Anisotropic filtering.

    But in many games there is just the 720p / 900p, 900p / 1080p, or the very occasional 720p or 800p / 1080p difference.
     
  20. turkey

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    382
    Compared to the PS4 not the mid gen refresh consoles?

    On rush is 60fps on base PS4 and 30fps on Xbox One
     
    egoless likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...