Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2018]

[djskribbles]

Could it be an artistic decision? Such as the X1X being able to render at a higher resolution mitigating the need for motion blur?

Or is it just that they need time to tweak the dynamic resolution of the X1X so that they can include it?

Personally, I don't much care for it. I turned it off in the Witcher 3 as soon as I found the option.

I'm still curious though, if any Pro specific features make anything like this easier/cheaper. Much like the PS2 was capable of better particle effects than its competitors. Less powerful overall, but the EDRAM gave it the edge in this one area.

Motion blur is enabled in 30fps mode, disabled in 60fps mode for all platforms except Pro, so I don't think it was an artistic choice, but a performance saving choice.

VGTech also says that grass draw distance is better on Pro vs X.

Interesting choices they made for each platform. On XB1/X they use reconstruction to further increase the resolution. On PS4/Pro they use it only when it dips below 1080p. However on Pro they increased the graphical settings a bit, beyond what was already increased over base systems. Perhaps they felt it wasn't worth increasing the resolution on Pro beyond 1080p and just capped it with improved visuals, whereas they pushed for a higher resolution on X.

 

[scently]

Motion blur is enabled in 30fps mode, disabled in 60fps mode for all platforms except Pro, so I don't think it was an artistic choice, but a performance saving choice.

VGTech also says that grass draw distance is better on Pro vs X.

Interesting choices they made for each platform. On XB1/X they use reconstruction to further increase the resolution. On PS4/Pro they use it only when it dips below 1080p. However on Pro they increased the graphical settings a bit, beyond what was already increased over base systems. Perhaps they felt it wasn't worth increasing the resolution on Pro beyond 1080p and just capped it with improved visuals, whereas they pushed for a higher resolution on X.

1X also has improved visual settings alongside the higher resolution.

 

[djskribbles]

1X also has improved visual settings alongside the higher resolution.

Yea... like I said, both mid-gen refresh systems get improvements over base systems, but Pro goes a step further maintaining motion blur in 60fps mode and having further grass draw distance.

Could be a bug, or it could've been left out for performance reasons... who knows.

 

[dobwal]

Motion blur is enabled in 30fps mode, disabled in 60fps mode for all platforms except Pro, so I don't think it was an artistic choice, but a performance saving choice.

VGTech also says that grass draw distance is better on Pro vs X.

Interesting choices they made for each platform. On XB1/X they use reconstruction to further increase the resolution. On PS4/Pro they use it only when it dips below 1080p. However on Pro they increased the graphical settings a bit, beyond what was already increased over base systems. Perhaps they felt it wasn't worth increasing the resolution on Pro beyond 1080p and just capped it with improved visuals, whereas they pushed for a higher resolution on X.

The X uses a dynamic resolution solution that also employs reconstruction?

 

[djskribbles]

The X uses a dynamic resolution solution that also employs reconstruction?

This is what VGTech says:

The Xbox One X uses a dynamic resolution with the lowest native pixel count found being approximately 1850x1040 and the highest native pixel count found being approximately 2742x1550. The Xbox One X uses temporal upsampling to increase the resolution up to 3072x1728.

Base XB1 also does this, but it upsamples up to 900p.

So both DF and VGTech came to the same max resolutions for XB1/X, but VGTech believes they are achieving this with reconstruction and the actual native res is lower.

Meanwhile both PS4 and PS4 Pro run at sub 1080p to 1080p (but native 1080p often on both), and only uses temporal upsampling if it dips below 1080p.

Temporal upsampling / dyamic resolution was just added to UE4 I believe.

https://forums.unrealengine.com/unr...d-releases/1413780-unreal-engine-4-19-preview

 

[BRiT]

What was actually real in PS3's E3 2005 reveal?
Beyond the target renders, a vision for the future of gaming technology.

http://www.eurogamer.net/amp/digitalfoundry-2018-what-was-actually-real-in-the-e3-2005-ps3-reveal

The stakes were high. 2005 would kick-start a console generation that would offer a stratospheric leap in processing power and gaming capabilities compared to the ruling PlayStation 2 and its Xbox and GameCube competitors. Just prior to E3 2005, Microsoft had already announced Xbox 360 - bizarrely via an MTV special - but gamers weren't exactly amazed by the preproduction wares revealed therein. All eyes were on Sony for its E3 2005 reveal for PlayStation 3 and when it did eventually kick off, gamers were presented with an unbelievable array of cutting-edge tech showcases. Unbelievable, as in literally unbelievable.

One phrase became synonymous with that conference - "target render" - and to this day, it's the blatantly unrealistic CG work Sony used to illustrate Killzone 2 and Motorstorm that this conference was remembered for (though its F1 rendering is also remarkable in other ways). Quite possibly, there was little else to show - PlayStation 3 was clearly behind schedule.

...

But then there are the demos of the machine in action. In the video above, John Linneman, myself and DF's new PC specialist Alex Battaglia commentate on the original media briefing and assess each of the demos in turn - and it's fascinating to revisit that event. The target renders and some of the demos would cast the entire briefing into disrepute, but there is some genuinely exciting and fascinating stuff here. Epic's Tim Sweeney would appear with an Unreal Engine 3 demo that we suspect is indeed running in real-time on development PlayStation 3 hardware.

...

And perhaps that's what rankles most about the PS3 reveal - the fact that Sony staff must have surely known what their hardware was capable of and that the target renders in particular weren't couched in the reality of the console's spec, and yet they were still shown to millions. It's not clear what the thought processes were that led to this conference showcasing both fact and fantasy. Was Sony concerned about how little it had to offer? Was it that worried about the earlier arrival of Xbox 360? The difference against the PS4 reveal is night and day in nature - lessons were clearly learned and there's little doubt that Sony's latest console fully delivered.

 

[Nesh]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...t-was-actually-real-in-the-e3-2005-ps3-reveal

This article had so many potential to be much more interesting. Like an analysis of how the devs tried to approach the visuals of the target renders despite them being an unrechable target.
Also Sony did manage to surpass some of the real time demos.
There was no mention of Warhawk, Resistance, Heavenly Sword or that other canned game with the amazing animation and cover system (which saw their way in Uncharted and the Last of Us).
Killzone could have also been an interesting subject. Clearly Guerilla would have never been able to reach the quality of the renders in apples to apples, but they did achieve some other amazing vistas that conveyed a similar feel and quality. The lighting system and shadows were top notch the target renderhad inconsistencies and missing shadows in that respect.
The article left me with a desire to want more.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Part of the difference is bound to be the idea of showcasing what would be possible 4 years in once the beast was mastered. Kutaragi put out a piece of kit designed to be powerful, not easy to use, and it was a given that launch software wouldn't be anything like as good as later software. You also wouldn't want to show launch software if it was quite weak looking. The problem there is the predictive examples had no limits imposed on them, so they completely missed the mark. I think the lessons learned are : 1) Don't make a machine that's impossible to develop for. 2) Don't try and speculate what devs will be accomplishing 3-4 years in; just show what they can actually achieve.

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

As much as the Killzone 2 "target render" ruffled feathers, it seemed to spur Guerrilla Games on, and probably netted them a lot of funding from Sony, who must have wanted to avoid the backlash that would have come from a wildly different looking game.

 

[iroboto]

What was actually real in PS3's E3 2005 reveal?
Beyond the target renders, a vision for the future of gaming technology.

lol oh goodness. This made me think I accidentally stepped into a E3 2018 predictions thread.

ohhhhhh.. with about 3 months to go it's getting close! Speculation is always a fun time. This article is a nice way to start ramping up the E3 talk.

 

[Cyan]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...t-was-actually-real-in-the-e3-2005-ps3-reveal

This article had so many potential to be much more interesting. Like an analysis of how the devs tried to approach the visuals of the target renders despite them being an unrechable target.
Also Sony did manage to surpass some of the real time demos.
There was no mention of Warhawk, Resistance, Heavenly Sword or that other canned game with the amazing animation and cover system (which saw their way in Uncharted and the Last of Us).
Killzone could have also been an interesting subject. Clearly Guerilla would have never been able to reach the quality of the renders in apples to apples, but they did achieve some other amazing vistas that conveyed a similar feel and quality. The lighting system and shadows were top notch the target renderhad inconsistencies and missing shadows in that respect.
The article left me with a desire to want more.

Things like programmable shaders were a thing, certainly. PS3 conference might have looked spectacular, but there was a lot of fakery. What sold me the X360 was the 3.2GHz CPU with 6 cores -nothing ever quite like that on consoles- and the fact that back then AA and HDR was only possible on the AMD cards at the same time, iirc. This can be seen in Oblivion for the Xbox 360, the combination of both.

The duck in the shower presentation was good though, but then the fakery...

 

[Nesh]

Things like programmable shaders were a thing, certainly. PS3 conference might have looked spectacular, but there was a lot of fakery. What sold me the X360 was the 3.2GHz CPU with 6 cores -nothing ever quite like that on consoles- and the fact that back then AA and HDR was only possible on the AMD cards at the same time, iirc. This can be seen in Oblivion for the Xbox 360, the combination of both.

The duck in the shower presentation was good though, but then the fakery...

The X360 had 3 cores. It was the PS3 that had 6 SPUs and 1 PPU. I am also sure the PS3 had games with HDR too.
Yes the PS3 reveal did have lots of fakery, but it also had many real time demos which were the real deal or were surpassed. We couldnt get our hands on the actual thing for a long time, so many of us were not buying a 360 because we were anticipating for the PS3 which was an unknown quantity. The average joe surely thought the PS3 was indeed going to be that powerful

 

[Silent_Buddha]

DF looks at the X360 Enhanced Forza Horizon on the Xbox One X - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-forza-horizon-back-compat-looks-stunning-at-4k

The original Forza Horizon looks stunning on Xbox One X at 4K
No remaster required: another beautiful back-compat showcase.

Microsoft restarted its programme of Xbox One X enhancements for Xbox 360 games this week with four new titles - Forza Horizon, The Witcher 2, Crackdown and Fable Anniversary Edition. We're seeing the same 9x resolution boost on all releases in concert with improved performance where appropriate, but it's the first game in this new line-up that's our focus today. Image quality in Forza Horizon is off the charts in the transition to ultra HD and there are a couple of further, surprising enhancements that caught our eye.

Forza Horizon is an exceptionally strong release for the X-enhanced back-compat line-up, and we're looking forward to testing the other releases. What we can say is that the tearing in the Witcher 2 is gone and performance has improved, and we're particularly fascinated to see how CD Projekt Red's vast range of engine revamps and optimisations fares at 4K resolution (3840x2016 to be exact, up from the original's 1280x672) and how that all compares to the 4K PC experience. And then there's Fable Anniversary Edition and the classic Crackdown 2 - both blighted by bouts of poor performance on original hardware. Can Xbox One X deliver both the resolution boost and a lock to target frame-rate? Or does the X emulator's performance mode actually find some use here? We'll have answers very soon.

Really looking forward to the Witcher 2 analyses. It should compare quite favorably to the PC version and possibly surpass it in some areas on the XBO-X depending on how much effort CD Projeckt Red put into it. It all depends on whether they just port the PC version effects over, or if they did specific work for the XBO-X enhanced version.

Regards,
SB

 

[AlNom]

Really looking forward to the Witcher 2 analyses. It should compare quite favorably to the PC version and possibly surpass it in some areas on the XBO-X depending on how much effort CD Projeckt Red put into it. It all depends on whether they just port the PC version effects over, or if they did specific work for the XBO-X enhanced version.

Regards,
SB

CDPR doesn't have much to do with the work MS is doing. Shader code isn't being touched.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

CDPR doesn't have much to do with the work MS is doing. Shader code isn't being touched.

Ah, yes, I'd conveniently forgotten that all the work was being done by MS for back compat. titles.

Regards,
SB

 

[BRiT]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...n-xbox-one-x-makes-a-classic-game-even-better

Crackdown on Xbox One X makes a classic game even better
Prettier and smoother - and the action is still immense fun.

It's still brilliant. It really is. And on Xbox One X, Crackdown is even better than you remember it. The 2007 classic scales up wonderfully to 4K resolution, but the biggest takeaway here is that, remarkably, the gameplay still holds up - it's still utterly superb. I picked up the game exactly where I left off - with a tooled up, maxed-out Agent ready to take on the final gang left in the game, the villainous Shai-Gen. What happened next is Crackdown at its best: absolute carnage on the streets of Pacific City, urban warfare on a simply spectacular scale. It is - quite possibly - the best £1.50 I've ever spent on a game.

Yes, £1.50. Therein lies a secondary joy of Xbox One X enhanced gaming - tracking down a reasonably priced physical copy of the original game, my 360 collection having been lent out or (shamefully) lost over the last decade. In the case of Crackdown, noted UK used game specialists CEX came up trumps with 360 copies priced extremely favourably compared to the cost of a Starbucks coffee. With an eye towards the inevitable comparisons required of a Digital Foundry project, I bought both copies in the store.

I returned to Crackdown with some degree of concern - principally because I loved the original Xbox 360 game but did worry that it had aged badly, that the open world action would fall flat nine years on and that the visuals wouldn't suit a 4K screen. On the latter count, I needn't have worried - the original game always had a distinct style, and the bump from native 720p to full 4K complements the art beautifully. The X-enhanced technique of forcing the highest quality mip maps reveals that the original textures were relatively simple in keeping with the cel-shaded style of the game, but detailed enough to the point where they don't look bad on a 4K screen.

 

[Riddlewire]

I had no idea you could system-link a 360 and an Xbox One.

 

[AzBat]

I had no idea you could system-link a 360 and an Xbox One.

You can also system link Halo on original Xbox, 360 & XB1...

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3-2017-xbox-one-and-original-xbox-can-system-link/1100-6450783/

Tommy McClain

 

[Riddlewire]

You can also system link Halo on original Xbox, 360 & XB1...

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3-2017-xbox-one-and-original-xbox-can-system-link/1100-6450783/

Tommy McClain

How?
Halo:CE isn't BC on Xbox One.

 

[AlNom]

Master Chief Connection