Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2017]

[BRiT]

Snippets from the article...

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The overall impression is detail-rich and very attractive overall, but it is essentially a 4K version of the existing console game, further bolstered - just a touch - by the inclusion of tweaks to draw distance, which can see vegetation elements pushed further out into the background.

In one particularly effects-heavy scene, we noted a resolution drop to a minimum of 2944x2160, though the impact is fleeting and we're very soon back to the full-fat 3840x2160 - native ultra HD. The same scene is confirmed as playing out at full resolution throughout on the Pro, but overall, we'd say that the Xbox One X game is the more preferable experience. The dynamic resolution scaler works exactly as it should in maintaining consistent performance - and that's something that the Pro version can't deliver. In fact, back in the day, we noted that the Pro version actually ran less smoothly than the base PS4 edition, something that unfortunately hasn't changed in the last 12 months.

All told though, Skyrim on Xbox One X delivers the goods - by and large you do get the 4x resolution upgrade the hardware is capable of, and unlike the Pro version, there are no disadvantages versus the same game running on base hardware. There's definitely the sense that more could have been done here - perhaps more of PC's quality sliders could have been pushed further - but as things stand, Xbox One X does deliver the best console version of Skyrim available.

 

[iroboto]

DF: Skyrim on Xbox One X gets the job done - but we expected more
Resolution apart, upgrades are thin on the ground.

DF were naive to expect more, Skyrim SE was a low effort project with Bethesda Game Studios focussed on whatever will follow Fallout 4.

The inclusion of mods allows the game to look graphically better ? I saw a couple screenshots that made Skyrim look fairly modern with all the mods on 1X

 

[function]

Bizarre that Fallout 4 and Skyrim are from the same developer.

Their dynamic scaler can do the job really well, but F4 chooses to sit in the 25 ~ 30 range in some stressful areas. I wonder if there's more to F4's frame rate issues than merely resolution, like the insane LOD perhaps?

 

[Globalisateur]

Snippets from the article...

---
The overall impression is detail-rich and very attractive overall, but it is essentially a 4K version of the existing console game, further bolstered - just a touch - by the inclusion of tweaks to draw distance, which can see vegetation elements pushed further out into the background.

In one particularly effects-heavy scene, we noted a resolution drop to a minimum of 2944x2160, though the impact is fleeting and we're very soon back to the full-fat 3840x2160 - native ultra HD. The same scene is confirmed as playing out at full resolution throughout on the Pro, but overall, we'd say that the Xbox One X game is the more preferable experience. The dynamic resolution scaler works exactly as it should in maintaining consistent performance - and that's something that the Pro version can't deliver. In fact, back in the day, we noted that the Pro version actually ran less smoothly than the base PS4 edition, something that unfortunately hasn't changed in the last 12 months.

All told though, Skyrim on Xbox One X delivers the goods - by and large you do get the 4x resolution upgrade the hardware is capable of, and unlike the Pro version, there are no disadvantages versus the same game running on base hardware. There's definitely the sense that more could have been done here - perhaps more of PC's quality sliders could have been pushed further - but as things stand, Xbox One X does deliver the best console version of Skyrim available.

So higher resolution on Pro but better framerate on XBX ?

 

[matthias]

The size of Bethesdas patches is really strange. I understand that it is not only some changed config file and that they have to link a newer sdk, but gigabytes? Come on.

 

[function]

So higher resolution on Pro but better framerate on XBX ?

4K on both, but dynamic on X1X. Dips as low as 20 fps on the pro.

Should have used dynamic scaling on Pro too. Perhaps they'll patch it in.

 

[Globalisateur]

4K on both, but dynamic on X1X. Dips as low as 20 fps on the pro.

Should have used dynamic scaling on Pro too. Perhaps they'll patch it in.

No. Dynamic 4K on XBX and native 4K on Pro. And the XBX still drops, it's sub-4K and not even locked.

 

[function]

No. Dynamic 4K on XBX and native 4K on Pro. And the XBX still drops, it's sub-4K and not even locked.

Err .... that's what I said. 4K on both, but dynamic on X1X. You literally corrected me by saying the same thing.

Frame rate is pretty damn solid on X1X, definitely can't say that about about the Pro version (rather like Fallout 4 patched on the X1X, bizarrely).

"It's sub-4K and not even locked" is incredibly reductive. X1X is maintaining a solid 4K and solid 30 fps in places where the Pro is consistently below 30. But that's to be expected, given how much more powerful the X1X is.

 

[BRiT]

Frame rate is pretty damn solid on X1X, definitely can't say that about about the Pro version

X1X is maintaining a solid 4K and solid 30 fps in places where the Pro is consistently below 30. But that's to be expected, given how much more powerful the X1X is.

Yes. That's why DF said "Xbox One X does deliver the best console version of Skyrim available. "

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Their dynamic scaler can do the job really well, but F4 chooses to sit in the 25 ~ 30 range in some stressful areas. I wonder if there's more to F4's frame rate issues than merely resolution, like the insane LOD perhaps?

In game and engine terms they are a generation apart (Skyrim originally designer for 360/PS3, Fallout 4 originally designed for XBO/PS4). The engine performance this generation was balanced for Fallout 4 so when the engine was retrofitted for Skyrim (lower graphical demands), it's not wholly surprising it dlivers a higher framerate - and delivers on Switch better than lastgen console delivered attached to TVs.

 

[Globalisateur]

Yes. That's why DF said "Xbox One X does deliver the best console version of Skyrim available. "

Did they say that for Battlefront 2 ? that the smoother game was the preferable version ?

Skyrim: Higher resolution on Pro, more consistent framerate on XBX
DF: best version on XBX: "All told though, Skyrim on Xbox One X delivers the goods"

Fallout 4: Higher resolution on XBX, more consistent framerate on Pro
DF: best version on XBX: "Xbox One X is delivering the best rendition of Fallout 4 on consoles to date "

Battlefront 2 : Higher resolution on XBX, more consistent framerate on Pro
DF: best version on XBX: "DICE's tuning here on Xbox One X truly delivers the goods for those console user"

 

[BRiT]

The pattern is clear ... the best console version of games are on the best hardware, the Xbox One X. That should be no surprise to any rational person.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Did they say that for Battlefront 2 ? that the smoother game was the preferable version ?

Skyrim: Higher resolution on Pro, more consistent framerate on XBX
DF: best version on XBX: "All told though, Skyrim on Xbox One X delivers the goods"

Fallout 4: Higher resolution on XBX, more consistent framerate on Pro
DF: best version on XBX: "Xbox One X is delivering the best rendition of Fallout 4 on consoles to date "

Battlefront 2 : Higher resolution on XBX, more consistent framerate on Pro
DF: best version on XBX: "DICE's tuning here on Xbox One X truly delivers the goods for those console user"

Context matters. Battlefront 2 drops 1 or 2 fps from 60 occasionally but offers very significant visual improvements over PS4 Pro at all times. Skyrim is locked 4k on PS4 Pro but drops from 30 to mid low 20s at times which causes noticeable degradation of control. PS4 Pro and X1X offer identical presentation when performance is stable.

You can disagree with their assessment, but it isn't a conspiracy. I would say the performance in Fallout 4 on 1X is unacceptable, so I would probably give 4 Pro the best version on that title.

 

[dten]

It's strange that two versions of the game are using a different technique for rendering. I wonder if something in the dev pipeline for the PS version preventing that. I've said it before but dynamic resolution should be the go to method instead of dynamic framerate. It's good to see older games such as this able to support it.

Did they say that for Battlefront 2 ? that the smoother game was the preferable version ?

Skyrim: Higher resolution on Pro, more consistent framerate on XBX
DF: best version on XBX: "All told though, Skyrim on Xbox One X delivers the goods"

Fallout 4: Higher resolution on XBX, more consistent framerate on Pro
DF: best version on XBX: "Xbox One X is delivering the best rendition of Fallout 4 on consoles to date "

Battlefront 2 : Higher resolution on XBX, more consistent framerate on Pro
DF: best version on XBX: "DICE's tuning here on Xbox One X truly delivers the goods for those console user"

BF 2 was dropping 1 frame every once in a while. Skyrim seems to be dropping noticably from 30 fps quite a bit. Developers can and should make the trade offs that give best overall experience. People who play the games rather than look at numbers will often come to the same conclusion. FO4 seems like a bad trade off for both machines.

 

[function]

Did they say that for Battlefront 2 ? that the smoother game was the preferable version ?

Skyrim: Higher resolution on Pro, more consistent framerate on XBX
DF: best version on XBX: "All told though, Skyrim on Xbox One X delivers the goods"

Fallout 4: Higher resolution on XBX, more consistent framerate on Pro
DF: best version on XBX: "Xbox One X is delivering the best rendition of Fallout 4 on consoles to date "

Battlefront 2 : Higher resolution on XBX, more consistent framerate on Pro
DF: best version on XBX: "DICE's tuning here on Xbox One X truly delivers the goods for those console user"

You're acting as if the severity and frequency of frame rate drops, and the extent to which resolutions differ (and for how long) shouldn't be factored in to any kind of assessment.

You are presenting a false contradiction by stripping away all context, all data, and then demanding a binary choice be made and that it be consistent.

 

[function]

In game and engine terms they are a generation apart (Skyrim originally designer for 360/PS3, Fallout 4 originally designed for XBO/PS4). The engine performance this generation was balanced for Fallout 4 so when the engine was retrofitted for Skyrim (lower graphical demands), it's not wholly surprising it dlivers a higher framerate - and delivers on Switch better than lastgen console delivered attached to TVs.

Yeah, I get that FO4 is a newer and more demanding game, but the difference in priorities is just a bit funny. The unpatched X1X version runs the best of all versions, so there was definitely the potential to have the game running better than it ended up. But while with Skyrim the scaled back resolution as much as needed to keep the game smooth then didn't on X1X.

Interestingly, it appears that DF found a lower "lowest" on the horizontal scaler for Skyrim than they did for FO4. Just 10% more off the resolution and FO4 may have been able to to stay pegged at the 30 fps most of the time.

 

[Globalisateur]

Yeah, I get that FO4 is a newer and more demanding game, but the difference in priorities is just a bit funny. The unpatched X1X version runs the best of all versions

No. The unpatched boosted Pro version runs the best of all versions actually, without the not quite rare and very long streaming pauses still in the XBX version.

so there was definitely the potential to have the game running better than it ended up. But while with Skyrim the scaled back resolution as much as needed to keep the game smooth then didn't on X1X.

Interestingly, it appears that DF found a lower "lowest" on the horizontal scaler for Skyrim than they did for FO4. Just 10% more off the resolution and FO4 may have been able to to stay pegged at the 30 fps most of the time.

No. Some scenes supposedly GPU limited on XBX runs at ~25fps (2/3 fps lower than on Pro). And there are still ~20fps drops due to those assets loading freezes (supposedly caused by HDD). 2 examples in the short framerate video provided by DF. One pause of 7 frames, the other 10 frames. It's still awful for the immersion BTW.

Also there are also CPU limited scenes running exactly like on Pro, even with the 9% CPU boost the XBX has. DF are funnily flabbergasted by this, caused by a 'quirk' of the Fallout 4 engine. Another type of bug, I suppose. Because those CPU related drops were the exact same on XB1 and PS4, and the XB1 already had a ~9% faster CPU. They have a short memory of their own work and findings.

 

[function]

No. The unpatched boosted Pro version runs the best of all versions actually, without the not quite rare and very long streaming pauses still in the XBX version.

In which case there'd be an issue with the streaming engine on X1X, as the X1X is faster and has more of everything. And as LOD is higher on X1 than PS4, you'd expect more streaming hitches. That's natural.

Interestingly, the streaming hitches on X1X and PS4 Pro appear similar, so that'd be an improvement, despite the higher LOD.

No. Some scenes supposedly GPU limited on XBX runs at ~25fps (2/3 fps lower than on Pro). And there are still ~20fps drops due to those assets loading freezes (supposedly caused by HDD). 2 examples in the short framerate video provided by DF. One pause of 7 frames, the other 10 frames. It's still awful for the immersion BTW.

The drops to 20 fps when loading can't be helped by dynamic scaling or removing rendering improvements. It's not the HDD that'll cause them as such, but the engine.

10% off the resolution - or 15 if it really matters to you - would keep the game at 30 most of the time. Infact, most of the time the game is already 30 fps even as things are - a res drop would increase this. So no, you're wrong. "Some scenes" dipping to 25 fps doesn't mean that game isn't running at 30 fps most of time. And a res drop of 10% would keep frame rates in line with the PS4P version, even with a massively higher resolution, and better effects, and higher LOD.

Also there are also CPU limited scenes running exactly like on Pro, even with the 9% CPU boost the XBX has.

Which isn't at all bad, considering the higher LOD on X1X, the extra streaming, the extra decompression, the extra draw calls, the extra visibility test etc.

A greater workload at the same frame rate. You know, sort of like what faster processors are supposed to do?

 

[matthias]

Did they say that for Battlefront 2 ? that the smoother game was the preferable version ?

Skyrim: Higher resolution on Pro, more consistent framerate on XBX
DF: best version on XBX: "All told though, Skyrim on Xbox One X delivers the goods"

Fallout 4: Higher resolution on XBX, more consistent framerate on Pro
DF: best version on XBX: "Xbox One X is delivering the best rendition of Fallout 4 on consoles to date "

Battlefront 2 : Higher resolution on XBX, more consistent framerate on Pro
DF: best version on XBX: "DICE's tuning here on Xbox One X truly delivers the goods for those console user"

DF makes over 10 minute long videos. I don't know, maybe there is more to it than 2 sentences?

 

[Arwin]

Yes. That's why DF said "Xbox One X does deliver the best console version of Skyrim available. "

But I think that is wrong! Skyrim VR on PS4 Pro is the best console version!