Digital Distribution vs. Physical Distribution

[Shortbread]

Does anyone know if Digital Foundry uses Digital or Physical game copies (mixture?) during their performance/face-off articles?

I noticed that my physical copy of GTA V is still required during gaming... even after a full HDD install. Sometimes I hear the disc drive spin up - like data is being accessed. When this does happen, I noticed obvious texture draw (streaming) being rendered in. I could be wrong about what's happening... but that's what it seems like. I'm not saying textures are being streamed in, it's just seems weird that late texture draw only occurs around when the drive is being accessed.

My question is this... why in the hell is the disc still required (needed) after a full HDD install? The digital copies don't require a physical disc to work...

Better yet, can disc access affect DF performance test/reviews if physical copies are being used, instead of digital copies? Has DF ever compared (tested) a digital copy to a physical copy, just to see if there is a difference in performance? Or just to see if a physical copy is still accessing data, even after a full HDD install.

 

[AlNom]

My question is this... why in the hell is the disc still required (needed) after a full HDD install? The digital copies don't require a physical disc to work...

There's no product key associated with physical copies, so it's just an anti-piracy measure.

Does anyone know if Digital Foundry uses Digital or Physical game copies (mixture?) during their performance/face-off articles?

They usually mention it if it's different from a disc install, I thought.

GTAV on PS3 streams from both disc and HDD.

There are seemingly very few cases of dual streaming brought up (i.e. Halo 3). Generally though, devs seem to have preferred streaming from a single source.

Has DF ever compared (tested) a digital copy to a physical copy, just to see if there is a difference in performance? Or just to see if a physical copy is still accessing data, even after a full HDD install.

I thought they did a test with GTA5, but there was also Halo 3 (disc-install is essentially like downloading to HDD) - I got the impression it was more of an exception than a rule, but I could be wrong.

If the game does dual-stream, the performance/load speed would be affected if there is aggressive access.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I thought they did a test with GTA5, but there was also Halo 3 (disc-install is essentially like downloading to HDD) - I got the impression it was more of an exception than a rule, but I could be wrong.

If the game does dual-stream, the performance/load speed would be affected if there is aggressive access.

The disc-based version on PS3 did dual stream and it was very frequent; constant if you drove fast or flew. If there are only very occasional accesses on PS4, that may just be attributed to the anti-piracy disc check.

I have the digital version on PS4 and have not noticed any texture streaming issues. Mind you I have a 7200rpm drive.

 

[Shortbread]

@AlNets - thanks for the reply.

DSoup, if you're not getting any texture streaming issues, maybe there are instances where physical copies require read-access (piracy check or texture stream). It's not frequent, but it does happen in certain areas of the game.

Guess I'm going digital for all my console games now.

 

[orangpelupa]

Maybe the disc check is bugged? Instead of its running async, the game os wait for the check to finish.

 

[Sigfried1977]

I actually had none of the streaming issues related to the all-digital GTA5 version on the PS3. Compared my game to the DF videos, and all the environmental details appeared in time, just as they were supposed to. My borther did have the issues on his PS3, though.

 

[Shortbread]

I actually had none of the streaming issues related to the all-digital GTA5 version on the PS3. Compared my game to the DF videos, and all the environmental details appeared in time, just as they were supposed to. My borther did have the issues on his PS3, though.

Sometimes I write off "I don't see any performance issues" to forum warrior pride... but now, I'm starting to wonder? What if gamers with digital copies aren't experiencing certain frame dips, compared to gamers with physical copies that's being reviewed? That is if the physical copy is getting accessed for whatever reason.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

@AlNets
DSoup, if you're not getting any texture streaming issues, maybe there are instances where physical copies require read-access (piracy check or texture stream). It's not frequent, but it does happen in certain areas of the game.

I am certain all PS4 games fully install to HDD so I can't imagine why they'd even want to stream from disc. There must be very few real usage cases where resorting to disc is going to augment streaming from HDD.

How fast is the Blu-ray drive in PS4? It's one thing to access a spinning disc (like on PS3) but another to have to spin it up, seek and read! That's an eternity in HDD terms.

 

[Graham]

for a physical game, it'll slowly install in the background as you play, but it will seek if it needs something that hasn't been installed yet. Once fully installed it should never use the disk to read, at least that is my understanding - it may have some internal dual streaming optimizations in the OS.

It still takes a surprisingly long time to install 50gb of data... Maybe it hasn't finished in your case?

And as al said, with no built in disk security (any form of uuid) if you didn't need the disk once installed, them you could just give it to s friend.

 

[Davros]

Some copy protection schemes rely on unreadable or weak sectors where the drive can only read the data after multiple attemps

 

[BRiT]

Some copy protection schemes rely on unreadable or weak sectors where the drive can only read the data after multiple attemps

Neither of those have been employed by console systems last gen for PS3 or Xbox 360. I suspect they won't be used for PS4 or Xbox One either.

 

[Shortbread]

for a physical game, it'll slowly install in the background as you play, but it will seek if it needs something that hasn't been installed yet. Once fully installed it should never use the disk to read, at least that is my understanding - it may have some internal dual streaming optimizations in the OS.

It still takes a surprisingly long time to install 50gb of data... Maybe it hasn't finished in your case?

And as al said, with no built in disk security (any form of uuid) if you didn't need the disk once installed, them you could just give it to s friend.

The game requires a full install before playing - so no preplay. Something that I failed to mention (forgot), it only happens during the online gaming session, never in story mode (as far as I can see). I'm almost certain (now) it's doing random security checks, that causes hiccups/delay in texture load off the HDD. As I mentioned before, it's rare, however it happens in certain areas of the game.

 

[Graham]

oh,I thought you were talking about a ps4 game sorry.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

oh,I thought you were talking about a ps4 game sorry.

I'm sure he is but there's no PlayGo implementation on PS4. Once past the first mission, you can go anywhere in the game.

On PS4 there is a 30 minute install from disc before you can play. Longer if you want to wait for the patch.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

On PS4 there is a 30 minute install from disc before you can play. Longer if you want to wait for the patch.

That's remarkably close to the theoretical copy time from BRD. 50 GB / 27 MBps = 31 minutes, give or take.

 

[Shortbread]

oh,I thought you were talking about a ps4 game sorry.

It's a PS4 game. As DSoup mentioned, no PlayGo feature.

I'm sure he is but there's no PlayGo implementation on PS4. Once past the first mission, you can go anywhere in the game.

On PS4 there is a 30 minute install from disc before you can play. Longer if you want to wait for the patch.

Yup, the install time is quite annoying.

FYI: If you patch the game right away, you can't use the Lifeinvader stock money trick (bug). After Michael, Trevor and Franklin are setup for life - then patch it. For those looking for that financial edge...

 

[eastmen]

This is why what the original xbox one was going to do would have been amazing. You could have gotten the game from a retail store or online installed it to your system and then put the disc away until needed again.

I bought cod and dragon age DD but sunset and shadow are physical (since I found a better deal) and I hate having to swap discs for sunset and shadow. Its just annoying having them out and near my system

 

[Nesh]

This is why what the original xbox one was going to do would have been amazing. You could have gotten the game from a retail store or online installed it to your system and then put the disc away until needed again.

I bought cod and dragon age DD but sunset and shadow are physical (since I found a better deal) and I hate having to swap discs for sunset and shadow. Its just annoying having them out and near my system

Well you found the solution

 

[Shortbread]

I should have updated this... but after replacing my stock PS4 HDD, with a Seagate 1TB Solid State Hybrid Drive, the late texture loads in online mode went away. The random disc checks still happen, but nothing that causes performance issues that I once thought.

 

[MrFox]

This is why what the original xbox one was going to do would have been amazing. You could have gotten the game from a retail store or online installed it to your system and then put the disc away until needed again.

I bought cod and dragon age DD but sunset and shadow are physical (since I found a better deal) and I hate having to swap discs for sunset and shadow. Its just annoying having them out and near my system

Yep, it's a choice between convenience and cost (among other things).

We have multiple price tiers for the same game and competition against used games. I'm happy about this since most people are satisfied and can choose what they prefer. The higher income class will buy it full price on DD. Students and lower income class will buy it used or borrow it. Progressives, activists and collectors will buy the disc for their respective reasons.