Did Apple invent the tree of knowledge

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by eastmen, Apr 21, 2016.

  1. eastmen

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    I was a non iPhone user who had a windows smart phone that had a 286ppi back in 2008. No iPhone users cared about such a high res screen back then.

    Its all about marketing and what features you fav brand name has vs the competition and that's how you argue on message forums about whats best.

    Hey remember when steve jobs said that a stylus was useless and now we have the ipad pro pencil

    Remember the comercials that said bigger screens stunk cause your thumb was only a certain size ? Now we have iphones larger then the note phones they made fun of

    We can keep going with the lists
     
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  2. bunge

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    Most of these aren't true so no, people don't remember them the way you do.
     
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  3. eastmen

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    Care to tell me which aren't true ?

    http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/10/technology/apple-pencil-steve-jobs-stylus/index.html


    Stylus

    Note sized phones
    Marketing job is to try and get you to want what they have and not want what the others have.


    and of course their thumb commercial

     
  4. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    I would guess the ones which have fuck all to do with PSVR...

    Not that it matters.
     
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  5. Egmon83

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    Before the iPhone, phone touch screens relied primarily on using a stylus. Some phones after the iPhone still relied on a stylus, like your HTC Diamond. Every HTC Diamond came with a spare stylus. Compare using the first generation iPhone, which came out a year earlier, with using your HTC Diamond. This is what Steve Jobs was talking about.

    The Apple Pencil is a peripheral for the iPad Pro series. The main intended use is drawing/content creation. Read professional reviews on how it compares to Wacom which had multiple decades of experience in creating drawing input devices.

    Releasing the most powerful 4 inch phone ever created in 2016, shows that even today there is still a market for single hand phones. In fact, Apple sold 30 million 4inch phones last year.


    disclaimer: aside from apple EarPods I bought my last Apple product in 2010.

    edit: on the topic of VR; look at everything Palmer said. Regarding price, control methods, FOV, optical quality, fresnel lenses, running titles on competing platforms and so on.

    Imagine if PSVR was run like that..
    I was thinking; would I have bought PSVR if it was more like Oculus today, and I realised I probably would have. I know Sony is preparing an enormous launch; in games, content, as well as actual devices. But I would want to have the device already, even if the content or the hardware supply is not ready. I would stand in line :p
    With PS Neo, I am confident that there will not be a better VR platform. Even without +4TF of processing power, content will always triumph over hardware, but it's good to know that power will not be a problem these coming years.
     
    #5 Egmon83, Apr 22, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2016
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  6. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    um.. before iphone, smartphones give you option to use stylus or touch. They did not force you to use touch (like iphone) or force you use stylus (like windows mobile PDA with its tiny menus)

    • Nokia 7710 works with finger touchscreen and stylus. It have huge on-screen buttons, touchable with fingers. it was in 2004 (iphone1 is 2007)
    • SonyEricsson M600i. It primarily use touchscreen. heck, it doesnt have hardware nav keys. Its physical keyboard only used for typing. Its a 2006 phone.
    whats your point? are you trying to say "yes, apple does backpedal their own words" about stylus?

    yeah, only a wee bit faster than 2015's Xperia Z5 compact

    http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=7535&idPhone2=7969



    btw, can we move these discussion to "apple reinvent stuff or not" or something?
     
    #6 orangpelupa, Apr 22, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2016
  7. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    :yes: :runaway:
     
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  8. tongue_of_colicab

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    This. I had a HTC diamond with a 2.8" 640x480 screen. Useless according to many iJehovas. Then came all the bigger Android phone, again useless to that same crowd.

    Apple tosses the "retina" coin and suddenly everybody jumped on that. Every time I hear somebody say retina instead of just naming the resolution I want to punch them in their iFace and automatically assume he/her got dropped on his/her head once too often by their parents.

    F'ing annoying.
     
  9. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    apple is smart in naming their stuff. For example, these are the marketing terms for various display tech from various brands

    Apple x Sony x Asus x Nokia
    Retina Display x Triluminos Display (current), X-Reality Display (deprecated) x Splendid x Clear Black

    • Retina Display = easy to read, to hear, to understand. Basically it means you get good display with no discernible pixels and it have good color.
    • Triluminos Display = hard to spell! and means what exactly? Tri... triluminos... hmm so... it have 3 subpixels? RGB subpixels? hell yeah.. its a bloody LCD. surely it use RGB... also its spec keeps changing very widely. 1st gen triluminos display is hard to see outdoor and have horrible viewangle. Heck, Xperia M did not have triluminos display but it have high outdoor visibility due to its additional polarizing layer that did not mentioned in any marketing material.
    • Splendid = have no relation to display quality at all. Splendid is only color profile app. Asus use this for many of its products. How the heck we know ASUS A have better screen than ASUS B?
    • Clear Black = easy to read, to hear, but a bit confusing. basically it makes a display have darker black (BLACK) and easy to see while outdoor (CLEAR) due to its polarizing filter.
     
  10. tongue_of_colicab

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    It's probably more a case of being able to convey the message behind the name. Even among native speakers there are probably enough dumbasses that don't know what a retina is let alone what it does or how that is supposed to mean that you cannot see pixels (which isn't even true to being with) or good color (which arguably is personal preference as well because I know plenty of people that like horribly calibrated screens).

    If you didn't hear any of Apples marketing speak retina isn't immediately going to mean no visible pixels and good colors though it probably sticks much easier than triluminos or splendid. Than again, back in the day everybody knew what you were talking about if you said Trinitron which as far as a name goes says about as much as triluminos so it's all about how you market the name.
     
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  11. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    I thought his point was pretty self-evident. The stylus is a peripheral, you don't need it to use the ipad pro. You don't even need it to draw on the ipad pro, but it makes fine detail precision drawing much easier. Where's the backpedaling?
     
  12. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    steve jobs "You have to get 'em, put 'em away, you lose 'em. Yuck! Nobody wants a stylus. So let's not use a stylus.""

    but now stylus is good O_O

    why not just use fingers that people naturally born with? maybe invent some super smart algorithm to make finger able to draw with precission. Or make a drawing app that is finger friendly so you easily make beautiful finger drawing (like those physically drawing using fingers on art class).
     
  13. pcchen

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    It's pointless to argue who invented what. Did Thomas Edison invent the light bulb? (no) Did Watt invent the steam engine? (again no)
    Why do people associate Edison with light bulbs? Because he invented the first practical light bulbs. Earlier light bulbs only last for 5 minutes or something like that. The same goes for Watt's steam engine, which was something like four times more efficient than contemporary ones. You can always find someone who did something earlier, but it's not just about some specific feature, but the entire product.

    Using high DPI display as an example. There were some expensive high DPI computer monitors way before retina Macbook Pro. The same for smartphones. However, if you use a high DPI computer monitor with Windows XP or earlier (or even Windows 7), you'll find that it's nearly unusable. Most applications don't work properly. It's useless for most people.

    To put it simply, if you want to make a successful product, you need to think in terms of the product, not some feature points or spec numbers. Unfortunately, it seems that many people still don't understand this.
     
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  14. milk

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    Not that this whole derailment wasn't a quite frivolous on its own, but man is it extra painful to watch you purposefully make yourself dumb and pretend you can't grasp the idea of context.
     
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  15. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    I was hoping Egmon83 to jump in but it doesn't work :( :( :( :(
     
  16. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    LOL are you trolling me? :lol:

    If yes, I gotta admit it worked (on me!)
     
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  17. eastmen

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    Some kids ran through your grass old man ?


    Anyway the point of my post was that marketing will tell you whatever they want to try and sell a product.

    The ps4 will only be powerful enough for VR until Sony wants to sell you the more expensive PS4k .

    Its the way of the marketing world.
     
  18. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Egmon83

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    There is a large number of people who often claim that patents suck; yes, these are usually android fanboys who most often, never invented anything in their life. That aside; the whole Wacom situation is a great example of why patents can actually help innovation:

    Wacom existed for many years, once they had a lot of innovations in the drawing tablet (=not iPad) field. They perfected their concept, and if a manufacturer wanted to use a stylus; like Samsung or Microsoft; they needed to license the Wacom technology.

    Apple didn't want to license the Wacom as it meant they would end up with a Wacom digitiser and they wanted a better version. Because of the heavily patented Wacom technology, they needed to work around it.
    The end result speaks for itself.

    When I saw it I said: it's pretty stupid that you need to charge it through the iPad lightning connector; that's not something that Apple would come up with. But I later found out that, when it's fully empty; you stick it in the iPad for 15 seconds, and you get 30 minutes of use with it.
    Compare this to the Surface Stylus; which now uses a Stylus invented by N-Trig a company that MS bought for the sole purpose of it's stylus.
    Apple invented it's stylus in house.

    This example merely demonstrates how much you hate Apple; look in your heart; did you get angry at Apple out-Wacom-ing Wacom?
    Microsoft bought a company, and it's Stylus is not able to draw diagonal lines:
    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...g/78c138e5-50db-4544-a988-6023a84b9675?auth=1

    If I was an android or Microsoft fanboy, I'd be pretty upset with Apple right now :)
     
  20. Daozang

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    I researched a lot about the apple pencil and the surface one. Could you point me to an artist that says that any of them is better than a Wacom???
    It seems that iPad pro is a great solution if you are on the go (even compared to the companion series), but not comparable to a wacom intuos or cintiq in terms of pen technology.
     
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