Current TVs and Upcoming PS3 3D

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by NexXtTime, Nov 30, 2009.

  1. NexXtTime

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    I'm not really a video buff, but am I right by saying that the line of Sony BRAVIA XBR and Z series TVs will support PS3's upcoming 3D gaming? (Yes, this question has been posted elsewhere)
     
  2. V3

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    Do the latest XBR support HDMI 1.4 ? Isn't that what you need for proper 3D or at least the 3D the movie industry is aiming for ?

    PS3 hardware did 3D Ridge Racer 7 in the arcade sometimes ago but I wasn't sure on the detail of the implementation of that.
     
  3. jlippo

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    I wonder why it would need it, as current implementation on PC space does just fine with an old DVI.

    About current Sony TVs ability to show 3D content the answer is no.
    The tech needs changes to tv and glasses, currently the most used method is 120hz tv with ability to show different images in each frame and a shutter glasses.
    Sony plans to bring 3d ready tvs for consumers in 2010.
     
  4. manux

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    There are ways to transfer 3d data via hdmi1.3 if the tv is smart enough to decode the data. The simplest thing would be to use 1080p60 stream and have left eye image in odd fields and right eye in even fields. Should give you nice 1080p30 in 3d
     
  5. Arwin

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    The way I understood it is that Sony has developed a special technique for televisions to be able to render all existing PS3 games in 3D. Only their new special 3D brand of TV launched in 2010 will support this mode.

    I think this is separate from the general development of 3D on TVs and in gaming where both sets will support the technology natively.
     
  6. manux

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    I would be willing to bet that is not true. My guess is that there will be 3d enabled televisions and limited amount of 3d ps3 games. The games will render/post process 2 different frames for 3d and work similarly to what 3d blu-ray movies do. I think the main driver is 3d blu-rays and games is just extra exploiting the same display technology as blu-rays.
     
    #6 manux, Dec 1, 2009
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  7. NexXtTime

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    Thanks for your input, everyone. If I may also ask, do you think that it's worth it to buy a 52" Sony Bravia TV now, or to wait until the new Sony 3D TVs come out? (I own a PS3)
     
  8. ShadowRunner

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    I had the same understang of it as Arwin. They said the TV is doing the processing and showed motorstorm, GT5 and wipeout all running in 3d on an normal PS3. I think they said all games could be patched to support it eventually. There must be somthing special going on, the games they showed simply couldnt render in 3d, on a normal PS3, in the traditional way while maintaining the original framerate.

    Here is the first youtube video i came across. There were several articles confirming it was running on standard ps3 hardware, from what i remember anyhow :lol:



    I also remember that the special processing doesnt have to be done on the tv and could be done internally on ps3 so that any 3dready tv could work with it. Suggests that maybe the processing could be done on one of he reserved SPUs. Theres not much concrete details yet bt id does seem sony as something up thier sleaves
     
    #8 ShadowRunner, Dec 2, 2009
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  9. manux

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    Time will show :) It can be some sort of post processing on ps3 side to create 2 separate images which are then moved over hdmi to tv for showing(same as 3d on blu-ray from hdmi point of view).

    It would make 0 sense to do some (proprietary) processing on the tv side to make games 3d. That would just consume money, not make money for sony. The market would be smaller than small. On the other hand, reusing blu-ray 3d spec and doing processing on ps3 side and being compatible with any 3d tv... Makes sense, no?

    PS3 should be able to transfer 2 separate images via hdmi1.3(and hence the speculated support for 3d blu-rays on ps3)

    How would you even do the processing on tv from plain 2d image? Would you start transferring both rgb buffer and z-buffer to tv? Wouldn't it make more sense to do processing on ps3 side and just transfer 2*rgb image to tv and be compliant with any 3d tv? And more yet, wouldn't it make even more sense to render 2 separate images and not do some hacky post processing trick full of artifacts?

    edit. At least one of the earlier 3d demos of gt5 used 2 ps3's to render the image. And on the same time they also showed super resolution gt5 that was being rendered with 4 ps3 machines. Don't know if the link you pasted uses the same trick... The guy in the video seems to be totally clueless and keeps guessing so I wouldn't take anything he says about technology very seriously.

    If sony has really found a way to do 3d image from 2d rgb buffer without introducing lag and bazillion artifacts that would be totally amazing. But I wouldn't believe that, at least not without seeing it. It would imply they could make any 2d movie also 3d - realtime. Sounds plausible, not really, not even remotely.
     
    #9 manux, Dec 2, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 2, 2009
  10. ShadowRunner

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    Im not sure, id buy a Sony TV if it was the only way to get my hands on this tech, otherewise i would go with any make as long as its 3d ready. Sony could always move the processing within the PS3 at a later date once they have sold a few TVs to some of the 30 million PS3 owners. It would make Sony bravia the defacto TV set for 3D gaming and wuld be a geat selling point. It would be a different matter if 3d tvs were already widespread but they arent.

    I have no idea how doing the processing onthe tv works, but if it does like sony say the it would make thier TVs very desireable over thier competitors. Id say they would make more money this way.
     
  11. NexXtTime

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    Thanks for your input, everyone. If I may also ask, do you think that it's worth it to buy a 52" Sony Bravia TV now, or to wait until the new Sony 3D TVs come out? (I own a PS3)
     
  12. manux

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    It's entirely up to you. Nobody knows what the quality and price of those 3d tv's is going to be. I know that I'm waiting for a 3d tv for my next upgrade. If I didn't already have a decent enough tv I might buy a cheaper model now and expect to skip first generation 3d tv's and upgrade to 3d on 2011. It might not be too far fetched to expect 2nd generation 3d tv's to be cheaper and better than the first generation ones.
     
  13. SG79

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    I would advice you to wait to see a demo and then decide if you want to invest in one next year. I just don't think they're worth it unless you have a 100"+ projection and are a movie buff.

    For games, I just don't see the going beyond the gimmick phase when they require glasses and give a select number of genres a good experience (can you imagine playing a fast moving FPS or a fighter etc. in 3D for long?. Wait for OLED to pick up instead if you've waited this long ;)
     
  14. thambos

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    What is the maximum frame-rate at 1080p for HDMI 1.3? It would seem w/ 240Hz TVs now, shutter glasses might not be as effected by LCD hold time (over older CRT based shutter systems).

    All this is reminding me of my old Sega Master System w/ 3-D Glasses. In many ways playing Missile Defense 3-D, Out Run 3-D, Space Harrier 3-D, etc.. was better than gaming i played since that wasn't 3D.
     
  15. ShadowRunner

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    I have played past paced shooters, racers, rpgs in 3D and in all cases it has added a lot for me personally. Playing Crysis and especially Fallout 3 in 3D was great and added a lot to the experience the world just came to life. Walking around a town in fallout was much more imersive than could ever be achieved without 3d so i do think it goes beyond just a gimmick.

    Also i wouldnt judge 3D gaming on the 3D you see in the movies also. In movies the effect is very subtle and seperation is kept low because of the quik camera changes and the need for everyone to be able to see it. With games you can bump up the seperation much higher to the max your own eyes are able to see, on a personal level, and really get things popping. Going by 3d at the movies i wouldnt be too fussed but after actually trying it out i really cant wait. Something like Killzone or uncharted 2 in full 3D would be a sight to behold. I would guess going into the next gen the effect will add even more, the better graphics get the more relevent the jump to 3D is.
     
  16. NexXtTime

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    Yeah, you're right. I've played a few 3D games for PC and the immersion was pretty amazing. I think I'll hold off on that Bravia and wait to see if this thing really catches on. Call of Duty MW 2 would be unbelievable (bullets flying past you, smoke in the distance, grenade shrapnel shooting past your face, etc. :shock:
     
  17. MfA

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    That sounds like Philips's WoWvx, which uses 2D+depth instead of a full stereoscopic image ... but that made sense for them since they actually used much more than 2 different images, so encoding them all separately would have been a problem. For pure stereoscopic, not so much. Personally I assume Sony simply encoded 2 frames in a "normal" frame with the TV pulling them out again, so the HDMI output hardware on the PS3 wouldn't have to do anything out of the norm.

    BTW, I've said this before ... but I expect 3D gaming to be much more a PC thing than a console thing. The casual console gamers filling a couple of arc minutes of their view with their TVs won't get too much 3D effect ... you really need a decent home cinema setup to get the same effect you have on your desktop, or sit close to your TV.
     
    #17 MfA, Dec 2, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 2, 2009
  18. patsu

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    The 3D gaming experiences you guys described sound interesting.

    I am not impressed by 3D movies (e.g., Blu-ray Coraline) so far. Too much fatigue. Hope to try a 3D game myself. Driving a 3D car sounds lame. Melee'ing a 3D Flamelurker in Demon's Souls seems terrifying ^_^


    EDIT:
    I have a friend who moved his PS3 from a 100" screen to a 42" one recently because he could not take the immersion ("Could cause a heart attack" was his words). Go easy there. Don't kill my friend with 3D games. He taught me how to play MLB 2009.
     
  19. ShadowRunner

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    Hehe im still here and ive been playin on 90" screen in 3D :cool:

    Was using the crappy blue/red glasses but i put up with it because it added so much, so that says something! cant wait for the real deal
     
  20. Brimstone

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    Sony could release a pair of OLED 3d glasses.
     
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