Current Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post launch 2021] [XBSX, PS5]

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You know that he is getting doxxed right?
Who cares.

His new video has him saying that the laws of physics dictates that the new PS5 with less copper and material will run hotter. It's called the laws of thermodynamics. What an .....! And he proved nothing to support what he said. Richard pointed out that Evans could be wrong in his assumptions but Evans doubled down.
 
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Allandor

Regular
Who cares.

His new video has him saying that the laws of physics dictates that the new PS5 with less copper and material will run hotter. It's called the laws of thermodynamics. What an .....! And he proved nothing to support what he said. Richard pointed out that Evans could be wrong in his assumptions but Evans doubled down.
Well, he still got a point there. Less surface for the air to touch is almost always bad. Yes, the test could go deeper and test a bit more, but this is really complicated. And the airflow hasn't been changed much it is still the more or less identical internal design (expect for the cooling-block). So his theory that the unit runs hotter because he measured hotter exhaust temperatures is not really that wrong.
Also history tells us, that new revisions are normally always worse than the originals as they get just optimized for cost reduction, and that is normally not that great at all. And sony is not really known for their good thermal design choices.
 

zed

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For those that don't know, DF's Richard basically said he was wrong, which he has now doubled down on.
Well they could be both right (as perhaps theres variations between both consoles)

you run a two benchmarks on the same PC you get different results both times, the exact same PC!, We've all seen this. In theory they should be the same but we see its not the case, so I can imagine with 2 different consoles you will see a difference
now if theres a large difference, > 5 or 10% then perhaps you can conclude something.

I had a read of https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...the-new-playstation-5-cfi-1100-series-console
'the fan has been replaced by another that has more blades, potentially capable of pushing more air out at the same speeds'
Is this true? I thought it was the opposite ( I know this is true with wind power generation, fewer = better i.e. more power from fewer blades )
 
Well, he still got a point there. Less surface for the air to touch is almost always bad. Yes, the test could go deeper and test a bit more, but this is really complicated. And the airflow hasn't been changed much it is still the more or less identical internal design (expect for the cooling-block). So his theory that the unit runs hotter because he measured hotter exhaust temperatures is not really that wrong.
Also history tells us, that new revisions are normally always worse than the originals as they get just optimized for cost reduction, and that is normally not that great at all. And sony is not really known for their good thermal design choices.
You really think Sony is going to release something worse than that they had after almost a year of statistics, testing and whatever else the design team does during the time. If anything, the new design will be better and more efficient at cooling the PS5 hence most likely why the exhaust vent is hotter.

I would like to see someone more reliable than a hack like Austin Evans give their opinion, which Evans didn't do in his first video as he made it sound like fact but then back tracked in his second video by saying it was his opinion.

What's also laughable is that Evans said the 55 degree thermal output of the PS5 would have negative long term performance affects on the console however when he did thermal tests on the XBox Series X which also had 55 degree thermal output he was impressed with how they were able to keep the console so cool.
 
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BRiT

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This is a technical topic so let's be above attacking people and discuss the faults of the material presented.
 

see colon

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You really think Sony is going to release something worse than that they had after almost a year of statistics, testing and whatever else the design team does during the time.
Ummm..... Yes. Sony has a history of re-engineering things that might not need it, often making them worse in the process. Although, I suppose I don't actually know the "need" part of that statement. There might be economic or other motivating factors that are completely legitimate, but there are plenty of examples of them revising controllers and consoles and having them be objectively worse for the end user.

And full disclosure, I've been critical of Austin's video proclaiming that the new PS5 is worse because I don't believe that looking at the air coming out of the unit and proclaiming that it's cooling is deficient is sound science. If 2 SOCs generate the same amount of heat, and 1 solution is exhausting more heat than the other, that the one that is exhausting hotter air should actually be the better solution, right? But the reality is that we need temperature comparisons of the SOC, and really the rest of the board, to really know what's going on.

Also doxxing anyone is a total trash person move in my opinion. Even public people deserve private lives.
 
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iroboto

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Also doxxing anyone is a total trash person move in my opinion. Even public people deserve private lives.
add onto this; just because you are a public person, have money etc, doesn't give people the right to trash you and you're supposed to just take it with no defense. These people are human beings as well and having all the money in the world while enviable does not mean they should take abuse gladly.

The mature thing to do is to counter point properly. But the internet once again proves that a lot of boys grew older, but very few grew up.

If 2 SOCs generate the same amount of heat, and 1 solution is exhausting more heat than the other, that the one that is exhausting hotter air should actually be the better solution, right?
The better solution will have a lower thermal resistance, and the only way to know that is the measure the SoC while the heatsink is on. It's impossible to know otherwise. There is no 'should', hotter exhaust is just hotter exhaust. If we take the same 2 PS5 cooling solutions, but opened the entire case up, it would run cooler, and likewise if we shrunk the case to be significantly smaller, then the exhaust should also be hotter. Neither cooling solution changed here but the exhaust temperature did.
 
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Reynaldo

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Nisaaru

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You really think Sony is going to release something worse than that they had after almost a year of statistics, testing and whatever else the design team does during the time. If anything, the new design will be better and more efficient at cooling the PS5 hence most likely why the exhaust vent is hotter.

Wait. You don't think companies like Sony aren't squeezing out as much profit as possible if the end product works according to *their* goals which can change:)

So yes they would instantly release something "worse" if that helps their current goals(more profits, higher production, whatever current management desires)
 

t0mb3rt

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You really think Sony is going to release something worse than that they had after almost a year of statistics, testing and whatever else the design team does during the time. If anything, the new design will be better and more efficient at cooling the PS5 hence most likely why the exhaust vent is hotter.

I would like to see someone more reliable than a hack like Austin Evans give their opinion, which Evans didn't do in his first video as he made it sound like fact but then back tracked in his second video by saying it was his opinion.

What's also laughable is that Evans said the 55 degree thermal output of the PS5 would have negative long term performance affects on the console however when he did thermal tests on the XBox Series X which also had 55 degree thermal output he was impressed with how they were able to keep the console so cool.

You sound very emotionally attached to a toy.
 

function

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I know from my own endeavours in overclocking my trusty 4790K, that I hit a point where going to a bigger heatsink and ramping the fans up to noise levels yielded increasingly small benefits as I clocked higher. Eventually it made almost no difference to CPU reported temps.

The reason with my 4790K seems to be that Intel used shite thermal compound between the chip and the heatspreader. Delidders seem to be able to get vastly lower temps. So I can lower my fan speeds, get higher exhaust temps, and up to a point it makes almost no difference to reported temps even under load. Similarly, I can swap back to a smaller (but still very capable) cooler and gain only a couple of degrees in stress tests. My silly big Nocuta 2 x 14 cm fan thing is definitely better than my single fan Hyper 212 was, but in all honestly it probably wasn't worth the cost.

So the PS5 is using a "worse" cooler. Okay. And it might be pushing less air, and so have higher exhaust temps. And that might be making very little difference to processor temps, and everything is probably still in spec and completely fine.

Also, remember the PS5 boosts using predetermined tables based on activity levels. The PS5's cooling is based upon what heat those activity tables were going to generate across the worst of the yielding chips. If Sony are now finding that worst case across chips they're currently binning allows for something less expensive, then they're going to do that.

I think that to some extent the PS5 (and all consoles) launched using a cooler designed to accommodate predicted characteristics across the chips they'll be using. I would also expect that design to be a little conservative. Over time, it might become apparent that they didn't need to be so conservative, and / or the characteristics of the chips might improve a little. And if you could pay e.g. $5 more per chip, but save $15 on the cooler, that might be something you'd do (supply permitting).
 

Inuhanyou

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I don't think the change to PS5s internals is worth all the concern and fud being thrown around in all directions.

Although Austin Evans does get clickbaity for views (his previous PS5 video about launch PS5s over heating was silly) it's fair to make a video detailing the pros and cons of the new unit from a manufacturing and supply standpoint as well as a materials reduction standpoint.

On the other side of things this internals change is probably insignificant to the lifespan of the machine itself or the end user in general (as the launch PS5s heatsink was quite overkill) so leading in with PS5 being "worse" is pretty silly for a tech YouTuber with millions of subs with people who hang on your every word.

Gamers Nexus and digital foundrys results will be interesting to see if the controversy holds up to scrutiny at all or if this is just one bit non story like every other hw console revision in history
 
Wait. You don't think companies like Sony aren't squeezing out as much profit as possible if the end product works according to *their* goals which can change:)

So yes they would instantly release something "worse" if that helps their current goals(more profits, higher production, whatever current management desires)
Yes they could do, if it saves them money esp if it didnt effect performance too much. eg with cheaper materials
Of course this is all about cost savings. If they feel that they have enough data that proves that the original PS5 cooler is over kill and they can save money with a smaller cheaper version then they are going to do it. Every company does it. Even MS will do it on the XBSX when they release their new version.

Ummm..... Yes. Sony has a history of re-engineering things that might not need it, often making them worse in the process. Although, I suppose I don't actually know the "need" part of that statement. There might be economic or other motivating factors that are completely legitimate, but there are plenty of examples of them revising controllers and consoles and having them be objectively worse for the end user.

And full disclosure, I've been critical of Austin's video proclaiming that the new PS5 is worse because I don't believe that looking at the air coming out of the unit and proclaiming that it's cooling is deficient is sound science. If 2 SOCs generate the same amount of heat, and 1 solution is exhausting more heat than the other, that the one that is exhausting hotter air should actually be the better solution, right? But the reality is that we need temperature comparisons of the SOC, and really the rest of the board, to really know what's going on.

Also doxxing anyone is a total trash person move in my opinion. Even public people deserve private lives.

Totally agree. Also Sony's engineers will also have statistics for how hot their SOC can get before dropping performance and the new cooler will likely still be cool enough that it won't affect the performance of the SOC. Even it the smaller cooler creates a bit more heat on the SOC, it's still likely 10-15 degrees cooler(or more) than the SOC can handle before the SOC degrades performance.

For sure doxxing isn't cool, but I'm not here to talk about that. My OP was about him complaining in his second video that he "wasn't ready for how many people were upset" with his video i.e. getting his ass handed to him by viewers, enough that he made a second video.
 
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function

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Gamers Nexus and digital foundrys results will be interesting to see if the controversy holds up to scrutiny at all or if this is just one bit non story like every other hw console revision in history

I think we already know the answer to that question. :)

I'm pretty sure the X1S launched with a heatpipe cooler but later transitioned to a cheaper one made solely of aluminium. That was fine. Dreamcast also dropped the heatpipe it had for the Japanese launch.

Far better to do this than go the other way and "do an Xbox 360". They launched with an inadequate GPU heatsink and had to switch to a new heatink design, with an integrated heatpipe that lead to an additional set of fins infront of the CPU heatsink to use some of its airflow.
 

Kaotik

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Far better to do this than go the other way and "do an Xbox 360". They launched with an inadequate GPU heatsink and had to switch to a new heatink design, with an integrated heatpipe that lead to an additional set of fins infront of the CPU heatsink to use some of its airflow.
The actual culprit behind 360 was apparently crappy solder, not inadequate cooling.
 
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