CPU performance comparison stuff *cleanup*

Discussion in 'PC Industry' started by vipa899, Dec 9, 2018.

  1. vipa899

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    One can hope Ryzen 2 will be faster, as the current Ryzens dont even compete with Intels 6 core cpu's. DF reports performance problems with Ryzen setups, Intel doing much better in general.
     
  2. Jay

    Jay
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    Games on PC are generally optimised for Intel (including compiler probably).
    In a closed environment like a console that will not be the case.
    Even current Zen would be fine performance wise in a console, it would compete favourably with an intel pc.
     
  3. itsmydamnation

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    its just a bad attempt at a troll.

    The big difference is memory latency and the current consoles are already way worse. the IF is tied to memory speed but anything over 3200 is well into diminishing returns. On top of this memory isnt tweaked to Zen's memory controller, You can make substantial performance improvements just by changing sub timings.
     
  4. function

    function None functional
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    Compare Intel processors from 2013 with Jaguar based setups. Then see how the minimum specifications of games on PC - which are generally below console settings and frame rates - are far beyond those of consoles on the CPU side.

    Now look at how close Ryzen 2 is to Intel, when compared to Jaguar and its Intel contemporaries. Then think about Ryzen 3's IPC improvements and power requirements.

    Next gen consoles will perform just fine compared to the 35~45 W lower end / lower bin components they would be up against on a similarly BOMed PC.
     
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  5. vipa899

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    False accusations like this dont seem to get moderated. This tells me where the limits are on this forum.

    Yeah optimization is much better on consoles, they get more out of the hardware then on pc offcourse. Intel has better IPC, a fast intel processor would probally be even better in a console then an amd variant. I want AMD to compete more with Intel, and Nvidia so that prices could go down.
     
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  6. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    Why would it be? You can defend yourself or ignore it. FWIW, I didn't think you were trolling. I think you're failing to properly evaluate Ryzen as part of a package with an AMD-sourced GPU, though. The whole can be more than the sum of its parts when those parts work together well.
     
  7. vipa899

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    Cant even think off what would be trolling with my post there, really dont know what his problem is.
    Ok was just thinking that it would be something if AMD takes the performance crown like in the early 2000's with their AMD64 days. But i understand even if Ryzen 2 or 3 wont compete with Intels i7/i9 they will punch above their weight in a console environment, and with that no performance issues that DF was having with their Ryzen setup in BF5.
     
  8. Xbat

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    I think mine and your definition of much is different.
     
  9. vipa899

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    In the pc space amd cpu/gpus are still not competing, this isnt good for prices. If this doesnt matter for the consoles thats only good.
     
  10. Xbat

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    I agree for GPU side of things but price for performance on the CPU side they very competitive.
     
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  11. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    Price for performance isn't a technical metric. Intel prices their CPUs that way because they can, not because they have to. A CPU that clocks higher, can perform more IPC, and does all this at a lower TDP is objectively better.
     
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  12. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    Meanwhile, here's some sales data from one of the largest german retailers. Damn those uncompetitive AMD CPUs
     

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  13. Magnum_Force

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    Not necessarily, cost of manufacturing should be taken into account. If that higher clocking, higher IPC and lower tdp chip cost twice as much to manufacture as the competition, you better not hope that said competition is less than 15% behind in performance*.

    *I'm not saying that is the case for Intel or AMD, just an example.
     
  14. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    This didn't contradict anything I said. Intel CPUs perform better core for core, thread for thread, and clock for clock, so they can and do charge more for them. This stems from a desire to achieve maximum profit per unit sold as well of some other strategic considerations around their product lineup as a whole (such as protecting even higher margin products). AMD CPUs are competitive because they are pricing them in a way that makes them a better value.

    I love what AMD is doing on the CPU side right now and I'm currently planning a Ryzen 3-based system for my long postponed platform upgrade. This doesn't change the fact that Intel's CPU designs are still objectively better for absolute gaming performance on the PC.
     
    #14 mrcorbo, Dec 11, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
  15. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    Intel Gross margins - 65.9%, though noted as "artificially high"

    Source

    AMD Gross Margins - 40%

    Source

    This is company-wide, but is there anyone that actually believes that Intel doesn't make more profit per CPU sold than AMD?
     
  16. Xbat

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    Even without the price advantage Ryzens are competitive, especially Ryzen 2 if the rumors are true.
     
  17. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    You do realize that Intel TDP has these days probably less to do with the actual consumption than AMD TDP does? And that motherboard manufacturers in general don't give rats ass about the "limitations" of boost time etc and in certain BIOSes even put all cores working at max single core boost clock - by default?
    Also gaming is just one workload, Intel isn't on top of everything (and not even all games necessarily)
     
  18. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    Did you forget what thread you were in?
     
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  19. vipa899

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    It is this i meant when i started about ryzen vs i7, i9 or whatever. In most gaming benchmarks, analysis or reviews the ryzens seem to be unable to feed that 2080Ti enough, while not even high-end intels seem to have no problem. I didnt really think off the fact that in a console environment this matters less, because devs can optimize and code the metal etc, but that doesnt mean that if AMD would be equal in their CPU tech that there would be even more performance to be had in a console.

    Its the same thing for the GPU's, amd promises much but havent seen it happen yet (wasnt Vega supposed to beat the 1080?). This aint good as Intel can keep their prices higher, same for Nvidia.
     
  20. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    A console with this class of CPU inside is almost assuredly going to be GPU limited most of the time. A Zen 2-based CPU ought to provide plenty of performance at the resolutions and framerates the next-gen consoles will likely be targeting.
     
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