Cooling efficiency of official console designs and validity of hacks/after market mods to improve them

[arandomguy]

Tom Hardware PS5 and XSX test as another data point - https://www.tomshardware.com/news/xbox-series-x-vs-ps5-which-console-stays-coolest/2#:~:text=During our XSX test sessions,ambient was 27.9 degrees Celsius.

Just another factor to keep in mind that aesthetics is an important factor when they design this stuff and not just functionality.

It's ultimately subjective in terms which actually looks better but I think most people would agree at the very least that the PS5 design is more "interesting" while the XSX design is "plain." From a functional standpoint in terms of cooling it's generally easier if you have more z-height to work with, which the XSX design has compared to the PS5.

Circling back to the original point of discussion regarding venting, it's often also designed in mind with aesthetics. Again it's preference, but the prevailing general preference is not to have essentially "industrial" looking venting for consumer electronics in plain sight.

If you hypothetically had Sony design the PS5 with zero considerations for aesthetics, I'm sure the design would be completely different. I'd suspect in actuality they likely designed it based on how it looks first, and than had to make everything functional within that size envelope and other considerations (eg. no random large vents on the surface).

 

[BRiT]

Can you actually link to said conversation please. We can't ignore a datapoint just on the word of someone saying it's been debunked.

GN had a followup section in another video where he rebutted those who criticized his methods. It was quite humorous at the time. Many don't consider GN's data findings to be debunked at all, quite the contrary, it seems all the more valid. Both videos are probably already posted on B3D topics from the time.

 

[BRiT]

Here's one of the GN followups to the various comments from 'Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]' https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/playstation-5-ps5-release-november-12-2020.61644/post-2180499

Comments from GN on Comments on GN Test from their followup Video @ 23:50

"That actually reminds me, as well, someone was saying 'as an engineer the material on top of the memory looks to be a cured thermal compound'​

It's Not.​

It's a thermal pad.​

but anyways that's a different story."​

 

[davis.anthony]

The issue with thermal pads is they lose efficiency if they get torn or ripped when something is being disassembled.

Did GN replace the pads for new ones before they tested, thus ensuring like for like testing?

Did GN do a compression test on those 'new' thermal pads prior to testing to confirm contact pressure equal too or greater than stock?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

So we only know that operating temperature is potentially lower than 93 degrees, but don't know what their operating temperature is?

 

[orangpelupa]

There's also other youtuber testing the new revised PS5 with new heatsink shape, and they found the ram chips on the bottom are around 75c.

While the APU seems to be the very similar as GN test on launch model PS5

 

[BRiT]

The issue with thermal pads is they lose efficiency if they get torn or ripped when something is being disassembled.

Did GN replace the pads for new ones before they tested, thus ensuring like for like testing?

Did GN do a compression test on those 'new' thermal pads prior to testing to confirm contact pressure equal too or greater than stock?

Watch the full response video segment, not just the one blurb that was pointed to. GN went into a lot of that at the time the findings were done.

 

[Globalisateur]

Can you actually link to said conversation please. We can't ignore a datapoint just on the word of someone saying it's been debunked. The Internet presently says PS5's RAM hits 93 degrees and isn't throwing up clear and obvious counter to that, thanks to GN's single video being duplicated everywhere.

Of course. I have read a few others critics (which I don't remember where) but the main problems of Steve methodology have being clearly explained by MrFox (yes he was here before) at resetera. So it's mostly those posts:

Steve (GamersNexus) is doing a PS5 thermal analysis

It isn't about right now, it is about long term reliability and possible memory corruption I'm not saying there weren't issues, but failure rates were within consumer electronic standards weren't they? The issues brought up were nowhere near RROD levels that's for sure.

www.resetera.com

Steve (GamersNexus) is doing a PS5 thermal analysis

It isn't about right now, it is about long term reliability and possible memory corruption I'm not saying there weren't issues, but failure rates were within consumer electronic standards weren't they? The issues brought up were nowhere near RROD levels that's for sure.

www.resetera.com

Steve (GamersNexus) is doing a PS5 thermal analysis

It isn't about right now, it is about long term reliability and possible memory corruption I'm not saying there weren't issues, but failure rates were within consumer electronic standards weren't they? The issues brought up were nowhere near RROD levels that's for sure.

www.resetera.com

Steve (GamersNexus) is doing a PS5 thermal analysis

It isn't about right now, it is about long term reliability and possible memory corruption I'm not saying there weren't issues, but failure rates were within consumer electronic standards weren't they? The issues brought up were nowhere near RROD levels that's for sure.

www.resetera.com

 

[Deleted member 11852]

From a functional standpoint in terms of cooling it's generally easier if you have more z-height to work with, which the XSX design has compared to the PS5.

Only if you're a monster who lays the PS5 horizontally!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Only if you're a monster who lays the PS5 horizontally!

That's me! Also everyone I know with one, where it fits under the TV in an AV cabinet or somesuch.

 

[orangpelupa]

horizontally, upside down?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

That's me! Also everyone I know with one, where it fits under the TV in an AV cabinet or somesuch.

My PS5 is vertical next to the TV, and my Series X is horizontal in one of the three open shelves of the cabinet.
My PS5 could fit is there as well but it is also my headphones stand!

 

[arandomguy]

Only if you're a monster who lays the PS5 horizontally!

I used the term z-height, but I guess should be specific and mean z-height, and to some extent volume, directly perpendicular to the main heat source that you need to cool.

The XSX from a design stand point is just much more functional in terms of cooling compared to the PS5. From simplistic stand point it's like the XSX is a PC tower while the PS5 is a laptop in terms of what you have to work with internally.

The XSX is basically a fat block with large open grills you can see this can do a pretty effective cooling setup even if it's very simple, a large block (without overly complex heatpipe layout) in a wind tunnel basically while still having plenty of open space for air to actually circulate. It's also relatively actual size efficient due to not having external accents/flares on the external design -

Ultimately it's just a basic (x)box, but they're pretty efficient from a functional stand point.

The PS5, despite the large actual volume, due to working internal thinness (the PS5 has more functionally wasted volume for aesthetics) has to have a more complex heatsink (heatpipes with multiple segments to maximize use of space) and thin profile blower fan that you'd normally seem more akin to a laptops cooling solution. Not to mention the vent design that's supposed to look more integrated/invisible than functional.

Reading into it a bit, it seems like they were very conscious in wanting to hit certain visual design goals with the PS5, and the designer's intent with regards to the functional side was to have the console be even bigger in terms of dimensions, allowing to be thicker essentially.

 

[davis.anthony]

I used the term z-height, but I guess should be specific and mean z-height, and to some extent volume, directly perpendicular to the main heat source that you need to cool.

The XSX from a design stand point is just much more functional in terms of cooling compared to the PS5. From simplistic stand point it's like the XSX is a PC tower while the PS5 is a laptop in terms of what you have to work with internally.

The XSX is basically a fat block with large open grills you can see this can do a pretty effective cooling setup even if it's very simple, a large block (without overly complex heatpipe layout) in a wind tunnel basically while still having plenty of open space for air to actually circulate. It's also relatively actual size efficient due to not having external accents/flares on the external design -



Ultimately it's just a basic (x)box, but they're pretty efficient from a functional stand point.

The PS5, despite the large actual volume, due to working internal thinness (the PS5 has more functionally wasted volume for aesthetics) has to have a more complex heatsink (heatpipes with multiple segments to maximize use of space) and thin profile blower fan that you'd normally seem more akin to a laptops cooling solution. Not to mention the vent design that's supposed to look more integrated/invisible than functional.

Reading into it a bit, it seems like they were very conscious in wanting to hit certain visual design goals with the PS5, and the designer's intent with regards to the functional side was to have the console be even bigger in terms of dimensions, allowing to be thicker essentially.

The problem with XSX's design is you can't stand it up on thick carpet as it chokes air flow where as PS5 works fine.

There's pro's and cons to both and XSX's design reminds of the old Silverstone Raven cases.

I wonder which design is easier to shrink?

 

[Globalisateur]

The problem with XSX's design is you can't stand it up on thick carpet as it chokes air flow where as PS5 works fine.

There's pro's and cons to both and XSX's design reminds of the old Silverstone Raven cases.

I wonder which design is easier to shrink?

Exactly. PS5 is designed to be put basically anywhere as long as it can fit. Ground with carpet, small cabinet etc. I believe the asymetric shape is mandating air flow around the console. There is also the fact that the exterior should never be too hot for safety reasons. For instance XSX is small, but don't have the space to put a very hot secondary M2 SSD safely located and cooled inside.

I used the term z-height, but I guess should be specific and mean z-height, and to some extent volume, directly perpendicular to the main heat source that you need to cool.

The XSX from a design stand point is just much more functional in terms of cooling compared to the PS5. From simplistic stand point it's like the XSX is a PC tower while the PS5 is a laptop in terms of what you have to work with internally.

The XSX is basically a fat block with large open grills you can see this can do a pretty effective cooling setup even if it's very simple, a large block (without overly complex heatpipe layout) in a wind tunnel basically while still having plenty of open space for air to actually circulate. It's also relatively actual size efficient due to not having external accents/flares on the external design -

Ultimately it's just a basic (x)box, but they're pretty efficient from a functional stand point.

The PS5, despite the large actual volume, due to working internal thinness (the PS5 has more functionally wasted volume for aesthetics) has to have a more complex heatsink (heatpipes with multiple segments to maximize use of space) and thin profile blower fan that you'd normally seem more akin to a laptops cooling solution. Not to mention the vent design that's supposed to look more integrated/invisible than functional.

Reading into it a bit, it seems like they were very conscious in wanting to hit certain visual design goals with the PS5, and the designer's intent with regards to the functional side was to have the console be even bigger in terms of dimensions, allowing to be thicker essentially.

Complexity is irrelevant for Sony. The most important is the heatsink should be cheaper as it has actually quite less copper than XSX heatsink. Same think for the SSD. It's more complex to design, but eventually it's going to be cheaper for Sony to make.

 

[see colon]

The problem with XSX's design is you can't stand it up on thick carpet as it chokes air flow where as PS5 works fine.

You can always lay it down on thick carpet, though. However, I would never put a console on a carpeted floor anyway. Carpets store dust and the intakes being anywhere in close proximity to a carpet is going to drastically increase the amount of dust in your system.

 

[PSman1700]

Sony went with design over function. Design is an individual thing, one might like the looks of either. PS5 is bigger and occupies more space, and remember that exotic designs might not age as well as more simplistic ones.

Cooling and size should be the most important in special for a console.
I have no idea about noise though, i only have the ps5 which doesnt emit much fan-noise at all compared to the (base) ps4.

Both make compromises in cooling performance.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Are people really putting their consoles on the floor? I suppose some are. Frankly neither of my consoles would last long given the aggressive approach to cleaning that my Roomba adopts.

 

[davis.anthony]

You can always lay it down on thick carpet, though. However, I would never put a console on a carpeted floor anyway. Carpets store dust and the intakes being anywhere in close proximity to a carpet is going to drastically increase the amount of dust in your system.

It looks ugly on its side and my brain can't cope with it.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

The problem with XSX's design is you can't stand it up on thick carpet as it chokes air flow where as PS5 works fine.

Feet that you can screw on, that create a bit of space for airflow, could solve this. Microsoft could do this in a Mk II revision.

As somebody who owns both, and sees the pro and cons of both, it feels like Sony spent a lot more time thinking about the design of PS5 and the use/placement of PS5 vs Xbox. However I don't think they came up with a better design. And to be clear, I don't think Series X is a better design.

As you said, different pros and cons! Seemingly very different pros and cons.