Panajev2001a
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SEIZE HIM!!!! SEIZE HIM!!!!
CONFIRMED: PS3 to use "Nvidia-based Graphics processor&
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SEIZE HIM!!!! SEIZE HIM!!!!
Cell GFX
Ah, my head asplode. I give up trying to predict.
On the one hand this is pretty cool considering that the PS3 will have a well tested and high quality GPU with lots of features.
On the other hand, the wilder ideas about Sony's graphics amibitions seem less in reach. I mean nVidia is great and they have tons of performance but I liked that reconfigurable bit level mesh patent.
Given the time frame (6-8 months) it looks like it will be a DX10 level part. There just isn't enough time to do something more unconventional. At least that's how I see it.
One of the previous posts got it right too cause it looks like Toshiba and Kihara R&D people got cut out by nVidia. I wonder if nVidia (and ATI) has so many shader patents that it was too hard to work around them.
Ah, my head asplode. I give up trying to predict.
On the one hand this is pretty cool considering that the PS3 will have a well tested and high quality GPU with lots of features.
On the other hand, the wilder ideas about Sony's graphics amibitions seem less in reach. I mean nVidia is great and they have tons of performance but I liked that reconfigurable bit level mesh patent.
Given the time frame (6-8 months) it looks like it will be a DX10 level part. There just isn't enough time to do something more unconventional. At least that's how I see it.
One of the previous posts got it right too cause it looks like Toshiba and Kihara R&D people got cut out by nVidia. I wonder if nVidia (and ATI) has so many shader patents that it was too hard to work around them.
Re: Cell GFX
Nvidia will actually be reviving their nv2 chipset so the ps3 will use quads, and they'll combine it with their 3dfx and gigapixel tech so it will also be a tile based renderer and have SLIed graphics chips. So basically a big combination of everything with big hype that failed. Oh, and had a big fan on top of it.
PZ said:
Nvidia will actually be reviving their nv2 chipset so the ps3 will use quads, and they'll combine it with their 3dfx and gigapixel tech so it will also be a tile based renderer and have SLIed graphics chips. So basically a big combination of everything with big hype that failed. Oh, and had a big fan on top of it.
Re: Cell GFX
Don't forget the external power supply just for the graphics hardware.
Fox5 said:PZ said:
Nvidia will actually be reviving their nv2 chipset so the ps3 will use quads, and they'll combine it with their 3dfx and gigapixel tech so it will also be a tile based renderer and have SLIed graphics chips. So basically a big combination of everything with big hype that failed. Oh, and had a big fan on top of it.
Don't forget the external power supply just for the graphics hardware.
16 pages in less than 24 hours. We need to remember this one. And it hasn't derailed yet!
Now I think I'll need to patiently wait till February for the STI presentations before finding out more specifics. Unless we get lucky - but this does demonstrate that Japanese businesses can really keep a secret.
Or we can trick some devs into violating their NDAs...
Now I think I'll need to patiently wait till February for the STI presentations before finding out more specifics. Unless we get lucky - but this does demonstrate that Japanese businesses can really keep a secret.
Or we can trick some devs into violating their NDAs...
SegaR&D:
That would've been referring to a next-generation graphics system from Evans and Sutherland, a developer of high-end solutions for markets like military simulators and arcades. E&S technologies were used in some past pre-PlayStation Namco arcade boards and were competitors to the likes of Lockheed Martin Marieta's Real 3D.
I don't see this to be the case. It's a collaboration, taking the best from both teams where applicable.
There should be some neat stuff under the hood like that reconfigurable bit level mesh patent.
I just don't see them throwing away all that research. It's been 2 years since they've been working together and I'd guess maybe 18 months since they've been researching and experimenting.
I think it's enough time to create something great.
Speng.
I think Xenon story will be another dreamcast.Mr. Microsoft do you hear that sound?Is the sound of the inevitable!!!
I didn't expect Sony to give the PS3 GPU design to an outside PC company.Big surprice, becauce Sony was capable to deliver by its self a DX9 PS2/VS2 level of feature or final image quality or design inspiration (if pattents was a problem) even on Q2 2003.
Microsoft (not the most objective regarding PS2) said officially back in 2001 that PS2 was DX6 level of quality,that Gamecube was DX7 level of quality and that XBOX was the superior DX8 level of quality.
If you consider that DX6 TNT2Ultra (150/183) was availiable in Q2 99, Sony was able to bring DX6 TNT2Ultra level of image quality (at 8 time faster) in Q1 00 (3 quarters after).
If you aply the same pattern:
First DX9 PS2/VS2 GPU R9700Pro (325/310) was available in Q3 2002, Sony maybe could (BIG maybe) bring DX9 PS2/VS2 GPU R9700Pro level of image quality (maybe at 8 times faster-HUGE maybe) in Q2 03 (3 quarters after).
So what Sony was going to do for the next 3 years until the launch of PS3?
Now serious, what I am trying to say is that since DX9 PS2/VS2 (but also PS3/VS3) basic rules and fundamentals was know to the IT community/industry way before ATI have in Q3 2002 in stores the 9700 series (actual product shipment) I am certain that SONY could bring after some quarters a DX9 level of feature or final image quality or design inspiration GPU (also a lot faster in relation with 9700).Now some will disagree and say that they would need more time.O.K. I say.Suppose Sony would need 2 F... years more than ATI to design that GPU, so instead of Q3 2002 SONY's GPU would be ready in Q3 2004.What Sony was going to do for the next 2 years until the launch of PS3?
Now really serious what I am trying to say is propably Nvidia wanted this deal more than Sony since they have all these resources and the DX API haven't moved at all the last 2 years (and propably at least for another year) they afforded the time spent in such a deal (Also console parts design deals come every five years).Also working with SONY and exchanging design ideas would be a benefit in the experience side for NVIDIA design team.Since Sony will propably sell around 120 million PS2 and Microsoft 30 million XBOX ,if this situation is indicative for the future then Nvidia will make 4 times the money with Sony in relation with what would earn with Microsoft (based on the same royalty model-also add royalties from SONY electronic products that will use the G-CELL-not an umbrela product).
Sony history in the console market says 3 things: they don't make many mistakes, they learn from the mistakes of their competitors and when they hit, they hit hard.P.S.they know about marketing
Sony is a serious company.It has many resources and talented and clever people.I think it is naive someone to believe that sony will just slap a PC part like NV50 inside PS3 when they have made every f.. effort to cooperate with anyone could help them make the PS3 the truly "miracle machine".Also even if that was the case Nvidia PC based part will be 6,5 nm and ATI PC based part will be 9nm and that is a huge difference).
This is propably the last console generation that the graphics will play an important role for the mass-market adaptation of the next gen consoles.
One last thing I have to say is that, if there is a master plan from SONY to reshape the PC industry/home entertainment market, my prediction is that will fail miserably.
P.S. Brimstone, that was good!!!
I didn't expect Sony to give the PS3 GPU design to an outside PC company.Big surprice, becauce Sony was capable to deliver by its self a DX9 PS2/VS2 level of feature or final image quality or design inspiration (if pattents was a problem) even on Q2 2003.
Microsoft (not the most objective regarding PS2) said officially back in 2001 that PS2 was DX6 level of quality,that Gamecube was DX7 level of quality and that XBOX was the superior DX8 level of quality.
If you consider that DX6 TNT2Ultra (150/183) was availiable in Q2 99, Sony was able to bring DX6 TNT2Ultra level of image quality (at 8 time faster) in Q1 00 (3 quarters after).
If you aply the same pattern:
First DX9 PS2/VS2 GPU R9700Pro (325/310) was available in Q3 2002, Sony maybe could (BIG maybe) bring DX9 PS2/VS2 GPU R9700Pro level of image quality (maybe at 8 times faster-HUGE maybe) in Q2 03 (3 quarters after).
So what Sony was going to do for the next 3 years until the launch of PS3?
Now serious, what I am trying to say is that since DX9 PS2/VS2 (but also PS3/VS3) basic rules and fundamentals was know to the IT community/industry way before ATI have in Q3 2002 in stores the 9700 series (actual product shipment) I am certain that SONY could bring after some quarters a DX9 level of feature or final image quality or design inspiration GPU (also a lot faster in relation with 9700).Now some will disagree and say that they would need more time.O.K. I say.Suppose Sony would need 2 F... years more than ATI to design that GPU, so instead of Q3 2002 SONY's GPU would be ready in Q3 2004.What Sony was going to do for the next 2 years until the launch of PS3?
Now really serious what I am trying to say is propably Nvidia wanted this deal more than Sony since they have all these resources and the DX API haven't moved at all the last 2 years (and propably at least for another year) they afforded the time spent in such a deal (Also console parts design deals come every five years).Also working with SONY and exchanging design ideas would be a benefit in the experience side for NVIDIA design team.Since Sony will propably sell around 120 million PS2 and Microsoft 30 million XBOX ,if this situation is indicative for the future then Nvidia will make 4 times the money with Sony in relation with what would earn with Microsoft (based on the same royalty model-also add royalties from SONY electronic products that will use the G-CELL-not an umbrela product).
Sony history in the console market says 3 things: they don't make many mistakes, they learn from the mistakes of their competitors and when they hit, they hit hard.P.S.they know about marketing
Sony is a serious company.It has many resources and talented and clever people.I think it is naive someone to believe that sony will just slap a PC part like NV50 inside PS3 when they have made every f.. effort to cooperate with anyone could help them make the PS3 the truly "miracle machine".Also even if that was the case Nvidia PC based part will be 6,5 nm and ATI PC based part will be 9nm and that is a huge difference).
This is propably the last console generation that the graphics will play an important role for the mass-market adaptation of the next gen consoles.
One last thing I have to say is that, if there is a master plan from SONY to reshape the PC industry/home entertainment market, my prediction is that will fail miserably.
P.S. Brimstone, that was good!!!
That's right. IMO, their taking the best of their IP's for each other benefit.
Also more inline with a cell GPU solution for PS3...
"The custom graphics processor unit (GPU) will merge Nividia's next-generation GeForce technology with SCEI's system solutions."
The custom GPU solution may coincide with Peter Hofstee comments of moving away from texture base techinque to a solution that implements a form of ray casting.
....On the money$$$$$$$
"Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:35 am Post subject:
Maybe....there is a SNT (Sony, Nvidia, Toshiba) archetiture?"[/b][/quote]
Jov said:
I doubt this alone will have much of a sway, espacially since the XNA cross-portability is already reasonably well embedded. Its more likely to bring PC centric developers across, which in turn will help on the gaming side.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
Vince said:
So you're changing your tune then about hardware not mattering from a couple of years back? That's fine, but don't accuse others of inconsistency. You're 180 degree turn on the hardware question is more interesting to me than this press release, which merely confirms that the PS3 will be powerful. Something we already knew.
Johnny Awesome said:So you're changing your tune then about hardware not mattering from a couple of years back? That's fine, but don't accuse others of inconsistency. You're 180 degree turn on the hardware question is more interesting to me than this press release, which merely confirms that the PS3 will be powerful. Something we already knew.
I could argue the finer points about "hardware not mattering" and how it's different from consumers "seeing a difference".
Or I could just say, whatever, good times.
Vince said:I could argue the finer points about "hardware not mattering" and how it's different from consumers "seeing a difference".
Or I could just say, whatever, good times.
Sure, except even software engineers at SCEI working on PS3 are saying "hardware wasn't the main reason for PS2's success and it'll be even less of a factor going into the next gen".
Like others I dont see why will MS fail in HW terms.
1-
Do you really think that MS will say ti IBM - we need you to suply CPUs , and we dont care if they only have 1/10 of the power than our bigest competitor.
2-
ATI is at least so good as NVIDIA ( in reality their last architeture change was been a lot better , e.g., r300 vs nv30 ) and with things like Fast 14, virtual memory ( they already had a lot of experience ), and why not some kind of HiperMemory directily to Flash-Memory ( from the all new M-Systems thing ), could gave to them real advantage.
3-
If MS is something, they are smart, very smart and they proved that in half generation with they software , live , exclusives , EA etc...
4-
They are the global center of software , they have really good changes to know almost everything in the comunity , and thay had a lot of money, so they can choose the best.
5-
Great markthing too, and each time better/more devolopers/games
6-
Probably a great pricing and kickstart, and at those time we should know everithing that we need about PS3, i.e. , people will only wait for PS3 if is really better, or if they had better games , or if they are fanboys, so MS will most need very cofident to their console.
7-
From point 1 , 2 and 6 ( first part ) why will fail Nitendo too? also they are the most experient, and they have a Revolution to us .
After this , Why do you say that Sony will win against/over all ?
1-
Do you really think that MS will say ti IBM - we need you to suply CPUs , and we dont care if they only have 1/10 of the power than our bigest competitor.
2-
ATI is at least so good as NVIDIA ( in reality their last architeture change was been a lot better , e.g., r300 vs nv30 ) and with things like Fast 14, virtual memory ( they already had a lot of experience ), and why not some kind of HiperMemory directily to Flash-Memory ( from the all new M-Systems thing ), could gave to them real advantage.
3-
If MS is something, they are smart, very smart and they proved that in half generation with they software , live , exclusives , EA etc...
4-
They are the global center of software , they have really good changes to know almost everything in the comunity , and thay had a lot of money, so they can choose the best.
5-
Great markthing too, and each time better/more devolopers/games
6-
Probably a great pricing and kickstart, and at those time we should know everithing that we need about PS3, i.e. , people will only wait for PS3 if is really better, or if they had better games , or if they are fanboys, so MS will most need very cofident to their console.
7-
From point 1 , 2 and 6 ( first part ) why will fail Nitendo too? also they are the most experient, and they have a Revolution to us
.After this , Why do you say that Sony will win against/over all ?
DaveBaumann said:
True, a console requires the game to have the gamers to follow, but for those that bought Xbox expecting more PC centric games like FPS, Sony might just have won them over, albeit a potentially small percentage.
On the topic of XNA, having nVidia on board will certainly increase Sony’s chances in its development of their own version of the XNA. Hence, getting more Western developers on board (improve the weaknesses of previous/current gen. And does anyone remember John Carmark's comments regarding difficulty in next-gen's multi-core game development?), like the big names behind the FPS. Who else is better to partner with (if this was Sony's goal when nVidia came knocking) than nVidia (given ATi in bed with the enemy), the 1 of 2 key players in defining MS DX standards.
I'm not saying this will happen, and I don't want it to happen but it might: nVidia and Sony may butt heads in the future. They're both headstrong companies eager to fill shoes bigger than their own. It's possible the two will have problems if they seriously want to develop an XNA alternative.
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