Class T amp for 23$, a revolution?

[Squeak]

http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/t-amp_e.html

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/sonicimpact/t.html

Will inexpensive Class T amps redefine HIFI as we know it?

Maybe I will finally get around building those active horn speakers I've been planning for some time.

 

[Guden Oden]

Please explain to me, preferably in simple terms, why I am supposed to feel impressed by this.

I mean, it's got no backlit LCD screen, no touch controls, no blue LEDs...

Ha ha. Seriously tho. It runs on batteries and outputs 6W stereo. Why the fuck should I be interested in this ugly plastic made in china thing, no matter how good it sounds?

 

[_xxx_]

It's a normal little lo-power amp which supposedly sounds very good, but we had that for ages. So what's your point?

 

[Moloch]

So how loud is it with 4 ohm, high sensitivity speakers?
Lets say some with some 6.5" speakers, compared to my logitech Z-5300?
Per logitech, this setup is rated at 280 watts, given it's price, I think it' more realistic to say its.. 200 watts maybe?
And given the 6.5" "sub"(hahaha...) is in a bandpass config(OMG IT GETS LOUD AT A SPECIFIC FREQUENY RANGE), could that amp with some nice speakers.. maybe a few of those amps(4 speakers?) compare to this setup, for 150 bucks?
I rarely listen with the volume for than half way in my small wood floor office, to get an idea of how loud it needs to get.

 

[_xxx_]

Z-5300 should have 280W?



I love how the manufacturers label this stuff...

I say it has about 25-30W "real" power.

 

[Guden Oden]

Well, Logitech does quote RMS figures for power output on its speaker systems, in case that matters...

My Z680s are quoted as just over 500W total power (RMS). I dunno if that's true, I do know tho that when played at high volume the heatsinks get mighty hot and the sound is fuckin' loud.

 

[_xxx_]

Just go to a local music store, fire up a 50 Guitar amp, or a powered mixer or whatever and take a listen. You'll need like 20 of those 200+W systems to match a single true 50W amp.

"Real" (sine) 50W can almost tear down a house

 

[Diplo]

"Real" (sine) 50W can almost tear down a house

Exactly. All these people with their supposed 500W amps would have their internal organs turned to jelly if they heard my 100W Marshall Valve Bass amp at even a fraction of full volume

 

[Moloch]

Z-5300 should have 280W?



I love how the manufacturers label this stuff...

I say it has about 25-30W "real" power.

No, I wouldn't go that far, I'd say 60-100 watts, remember it's a 5.1 system.

Just go to a local music store, fire up a 50 Guitar amp, or a powered mixer or whatever and take a listen. You'll need like 20 of those 200+W systems to match a single true 50W amp.

"Real" (sine) 50W can almost tear down a house

I have worked with a 500 watt PA system, mixer/amp combo, and with even just 2 15" cabs(8 ohm) with horns so its only 250 watts, it is VERY loud.

 

[sytaylor]

My Z680s are quoted as just over 500W total power (RMS). I dunno if that's true, I do know tho that when played at high volume the heatsinks get mighty hot and the sound is fuckin' loud.

QFT

 

[Guden Oden]

Well, it's all that matters to me, it can play powerful sound, and particulary bass, without the speakers starting to sound funny.

To overpower this sub I have to turn up the volume so loud my ears hurt and things in my apartement start to shake and rattle, unlike pretty much any other speaker system sub where the bass port causes weird irritating breathing artefacts even at moderate volumes.

 

[_xxx_]

Guden, that's fine, but 500W would kinda launch you out the window if you'd stand in front of the speaker and press "play".

These "500W" refer to total power consumption, which has nothing to do with the actual power of the output signal.

EDIT:
"RMS" (root mean square) actually should be total sustained output power, but that's a lie

 

[Guden Oden]

Guden, that's fine, but 500W would kinda launch you out the window if you'd stand in front of the speaker and press "play".

Yeah, so? I'm not impressed by wattages, what I look at is stuff like features, build quality, looks and overall "goodlyness". The Altec Lansing speaker system I had before was decent enough, it could fake dolby pro-logic with 2-way speakers, and the sub was pretty decent too most of the time. However, for loud explosions and such it made weird noises.

It's the same with my Sony HT-BE1 surround system. It's very compact and has lots of features, but the narrow bass port causes lots of artefacts at high bass levels. It's great for music and such, not that good for action movies.

The Z680s really need to be pushed to make the sub sound bad. I have managed it, but in doing so I was in the process of waking up the dead! That the 500W power rating is an overexaggeration couldn't interest me less; even if the amplifier for the sub (188W) only gives 50% "real" output, that's still quite sufficient to make furniture and appliances move in my home... It's simply a damn good speaker set, I love 'em!

 

[_xxx_]

Sure, for home entertainment you'll never need (or bear, for that matter) more than 30-50 actual Watts. Quality is what matters.

I'm ok with your opinion, I just hate the manufacturers for the false Wattage spec. I've seen a 40x30x60 cm CD/Radio a while back with a 1800W sticker on it. Hilarious. The thing had 30-40W at best. All this shit is just like bying a 650W PSU for one's PC

 

[MuFu]

10% THD when using batteries, WTF?

 

[Guden Oden]

Sure, for home entertainment you'll never need (or bear, for that matter) more than 30-50 actual Watts. Quality is what matters.

Problem is, what most so-called audiophiles call "quality" is that which cannot be heard and does not exist, except on the sticker price. I don't want to pay $1500 for a set of "quality" speakers, I'll gladly settle for a "crap" $300 computer surround system and get all the bells and whistles included such as DD/DTS decoder, etc, plus excellent sound quality to boot.

No point in buying "quality" stuff when the fans and harddrives in my PC ruins any chances of enjoying the extra s/n ratio and stuff in the "quality" equipment.

It's like reading wine reviews, really. They talk about the flavor having nuts and fruit and all kinds of weird shit, NO IT DOES NOT. Wine's made of grapes, not nuts!!! Audiophile reviews are equally puzzling, typically written by middleaged balding men whose ears' frequency range certainly must be no higher than 15kHz...

 

[Boke]

"Problem is, what most so-called audiophiles call "quality" is that which cannot be heard and does not exist, except on the sticker price."

"Audiophile reviews are equally puzzling, typically written by middleaged balding men whose ears' frequency range certainly must be no higher than 15kHz..."

Isn't it the truth?

You also need to add that the speakers must never be purchased from a large chain store. If a chain store sells them they are automatically crap.
You must "Audition" them in a room that is completely alien to the one you will listen to them at home.

Then you need $500 wire to connect them... even though they have been proven to be indistinguishable from 12 gauge lamp cord.

 

[WhiningKhan]

Problem is, what most so-called audiophiles call "quality" is that which cannot be heard and does not exist, except on the sticker price. I don't want to pay $1500 for a set of "quality" speakers, I'll gladly settle for a "crap" $300 computer surround system and get all the bells and whistles included such as DD/DTS decoder, etc, plus excellent sound quality to boot.

You are mixing two separate domains of technology. Don't.

Sure, you're not going to want any "real" (=traditional) hi-fi components with your computer system. You wouldn't want to implement in-car audio system with such equipment either, or vice versa. It's a matter of usage environment, usage requirements and usage expectations.

Thus, your rave about audiophilia is on an invalid foundation. Sure, when it comes to high-end weirdness, some pretty ridiculous stuff comes up, but I will personally guarantee that an entry-level (1000-2000€) "traditional" hi-fi setup for sane persons with properly selected components and appropriate room setup will sound better than an all-in-one department store "home cinema set" (~500€) in a blind test, even for your ears. Of course, it's also more expensive, but I've also heard of some really screwed-up guys who spend such amounts of money on computers believing it will improve their lives...

But, to me the sensible aspect of real audiophilia is that it should be based on personal test experiences, not on advertising, pretty pictures or plastic finishing. It's a difference in values, so no reason to get overly stressed of each other's opinions.

If you do not understand why audio quality is important or what makes up the quality, it's all right. There's plenty of things in the world for each of us to not understand.

And a disclaimer: No, I don't regard myself as a true audiophile. I have rather inexpensive equipment myself. However, listening to some other people's setups live does give me a feeling of genuine envy.

 

[Althornin]

It's like reading wine reviews, really. They talk about the flavor having nuts and fruit and all kinds of weird shit, NO IT DOES NOT. Wine's made of grapes, not nuts!!!

Well, my family makes wine, and we own a vineyard, grow our own grapes.
I'd say, you haven't a clue.
"nutty" describes a flavor. So does "fruity".

As a person who has always wanted the money to buy a real high quality stereo solution, and someone who has heard many and done lots of research, you don't have a clue on the audio-phile thing either.

Sure there is BS - $1600 speaker cables are BS. every scientifically done double-blind test says so. As long as the cables are above a certain level, you can't tell the difference.

Wine works similarly. when wine tasting goes scientific (double blind) the winners change dramatically. That is because labels matter to people.

but quality does exist, and can be quantified, sorta.

 

[Mintmaster]

I'm ok with your opinion, I just hate the manufacturers for the false Wattage spec. I've seen a 40x30x60 cm CD/Radio a while back with a 1800W sticker on it. Hilarious. The thing had 30-40W at best. All this shit is just like bying a 650W PSU for one's PC

Actually, a 650W PSU does mean something, unlike those audio wattages.

The 1800W rating is probably PMPO or something like that. RMS ratings are, for the most part, comparable between manufacturers. I'm pretty sure they measure the sustained power dissipated across whatever is connected to the speaker outputs, i.e. the power output of the amp (not the speakers).

If what you say is correct, though, then maybe the amps don't take into account the phase shift between voltage and current, so they get a rating by P = V_rms X I_rms, not true P_rms. I don't think anyone refers to true sound output power. Looking at the formula for sound power, one watt of sound power would be 120dB.