Can HL2 meet your expectations?

yah

I think Zyrusticae was probably referring to when the grunts roll out of the way of gunfire. I haven't seen it too many times, but it does happen.

But seriously, enough with the Doom3 stuff. This wasn't even a Doom3 thread, and it's circled back into an argument from two weeks ago. We know who likes the game and who hates it now.

 

Don't bother arguing about whether gameplay>graphics or whatever .

NEWSFLASH it is an opinion so you can all have different ones.

In my opinion I think graphics are more important by a tiny bit, but that is just an opinion feel free to have a different one

 

Really depends the games you play. I am playing almost only mmorpg and if graphics are nice on the long run only gameplay and content are making people stay.

I was talking with a lot of friends on Everquest lately as we are looking for our next game and a lot of them have 350-450 days played. Trust me after all that time no graphic is a surprise, only gameplay stays

Btw, contrary to JVD most of us are moving to WoW, not EQ2. If only i could get a key for wow beta i would have left eq already

 

Can't comment on Doom3's AI but I'm about 80% through Far Cry and it has the best AI of any game I've ever played. Sure they're relatively dumb but compared to the AI of most other games they're brilliant

Agreed. Last time I rated gameplay highly over graphics was Super Mario World

PS: I think all MMORPG's are a waste of your valuable time

 

all games are a waste of valuable time, MMORPGs just seem to be more fun and interesting.

 

Shoudl I stop playing UT2k4?

 

Re: yah

Well, the subject I was addressing was AI, and talking about D3 doesn't seem at all unusual as D3 is shipping and lots of us have it and are playing and therefore have opinions on it--whereas HL2 has yet to ship to anybody and therefore it's very difficult for anybody to have an opinion about HL2, isn't it? At least, an opinion that means anything at this point. BTW, the subject of AI and D3 was not raised by me, and I simply responded to an ongoing discussion by others about its AI that preceded my post.

Also, I had no trouble interpreting what Zyrusticae said, which is why I quoted *him* prior to responding, but thanks for your input anyway...

 

Expect the unexpected.

*spoiler warning*

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Alys is G-Man's mistress.

 

Ah yes but some to a much greater extent than others. Consider those who have clocked thousands of mindless hours levelling their character in MMORPG's. At least single player games have a definite goal and in 15-25 hours you get a sense of accomplishment while getting constant stimuli that you are progressing somewhere. Even multiplayer games like UT2K4 allow you to come in, play a few rounds and have a blast.

But if you find the mind numbing level creep of MMORPG's fun and interesting - forever waiting on that expansion to unlock some new area - then we have much different tastes in entertainment.

 

You need to read this thread then

On the AI:

There are a few levels of AI in action here.
Doom3 AI is fairly good at killing you, but its mostly by having scripted spawn points.
They always spawn in the same places, triggered by player location & will pretty much behave the same everytime you run through a section, regardless of what you do.
Further, there is such little room to maneuvre that it doesn't matter much whether its good AI or not, cos you gotta kill it quick before it kills you.

But while FarCry AI is less good at killing you, its a very complex AI with hearing, vision, some tactics etc.
The NPCs spawn in different places (within limits) each load & at load time (I think) rather than from a trigger point.
The AI has the NPCs following different patrol routes each time, even if their patrol is just milling around a certain small area.
If you go bashing through the jungle, the AI will hear you & come investigate.
They'll even come in a group.
Some might even try to come round behind you.
One of them might call for help & bring backup.
Or if you're sneaky, you can just bypass them quietly & they'll stand around talking inanely to each other (try that in Doom3 )

Unfortunately however, with complexity comes the issue that complex AI can get confused because its not even slightly close to human intelligence.
So you get AI that turns & runs when you are 3ft away (sometimes running is more realistic than a deathcharge though).
& AI that gets stuck on things.
Even some that can't work out where that shot came from (I guess thats a good thing actually)

There's also humanising AI.
Its really easy to make an aiming AI that will hit you with headshots almost every time regardless of how you dodge as seen in games like Counter Strike with the aimbots & the Xwing series, where the turret AI is a deadshot.
AI scripters actually spend lots of time fiddling with (especially) their aiming AI to attempt to make it believably falliable rather than believably good.


So what I'm trying to say is:
Its fairly easy to kill players with a tightly scripted but basic AI when the player is restricted in maneuvre &/or otherwise encumbered (torch) as in Doom3.
Similarly, a complex AI often winds up looking stupid especially when the player is given latitude to use different tactics as in FarCry.
Which is 'better' ie more complex? FarCry easily.
Which is 'better' ie more fun? Depends on what you're looking for. Some will like Doom3 others FarCry.

Eitherway, I think HL2 will have AI that falls somewhere between the two & will either be everyones favourite or dissapoint the fans of both extremes.

 

Thats right, there is no problem to make an ai that kills you within a single frame. The problem is to make it evaluate situations and make decissions based on the info it has, like vision, sound (and smell?) or sixth sense. It could end up stupid, but it makes it all so much more interesting. I loved farcry's ai, escpecially when i'm hiding out in the jungle waiting for hunting parties.

I remember playing half-life the first time and was amazed by the enemy ai, grunts would try to flank you and throw 'nades. Beeing used to the standard doom ai (walk into the room, enemy know you are there and tries for the rest of the map (or it's life...) to go to your position while shooting you on sight). Althought last time i replayed half-life, the first grunt i encountered in "we got hostiles" killed himelf with his own 'nade...

 

No! Keep playing UT! what i meant was... well... i didn't have a point, i just felt like posting. Ironically the 2 people who responded also live in NY, bring it!(jokingly). Games are fun, i love games, and other people should love games, but whatever they like is their own opinion(Besides sports games, if you just play those, go outside and have fun)

 

If you need a sense of accomplishment you should reconsider what you can find in theses mmorpg. You get that result everytime you are finally able to win an event as a team, and a lot of events need more time to learn and succeed that you need to finish a whole fps game ...

On top of that you have the pleasure to play with guilds/clans, and to compete with others. I know very few player that leave online game and go back to solo fps unless they have to dur to life constraints.

 

I can imagine that there is some satisfaction to be had in MMORPG's but there are several limitations. First the time investment is ridiculous if you want to have a competent character - most of them require you to do inane useless tasks incessantly before you get to a decent level - and like you said if you're in a clan/guild you need to align your schedule with others. So to be a hardcore MMORPG player you need to really not have much else going on in life - with other games you can put in an hour or two whenever you feel like it and you won't be left behind.

It's really a matter of taste though - even good reviews of MMORPG's always refer to the same monotony - lack of competent players - and general boredom that permeates the landscape. COH seems to be the most attractive one in a while since it doesn't pretend to be something it's not. Ok, enough MMORPG bashing for one day

 

Well if you realize that mmorpg is a constant growing market, it seems that a lot of people enjoy them.
I think your problem is you may have never played a "fresh" game so you see the leveling as a boring step before really playing while for you first or two first chars in each game, the levelling part is also part of the fun

 

Depends on your definition of fun. You do realise that UO (from which many subsequent MMORPGs take their lead due to it's success) was orginally meant to be billed per hour, and so was *designed* to have lots of time-wasting and drawn out gameplay in order to increase revenue?

 

I played UO until March 99, trust me i know the game The monthy fee was under 10 $, they nbever tried to charge per hour or people would have left way faster. It is the only game where i sold my account btw

 

Doom3 doesn't need AI to accomplish its goal of scaring the pants of you. I'll be buying Half-Life and have a blast playing it like I did Doom3. Doom3 graphics > HL2

 

As I said, it was *originally designed* to be pay per hour. This was changed just before release to a monthly subscription, but of course by then the game design to make you spend as much time (and money) online as possible was set. That's why it always takes so long to get from A to B (for instance).