Can high resolution textures substitute more polygons?

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Inuhanyou, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. Inuhanyou

    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Messages:
    786
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    I don't think a thread like this was made before, but i'm pretty curious about it.

    Based on the specs we have of Orbis and Durango, it seems we will be a pretty good upgrade of ram, along with GPU power and CPU power.

    On the subject however, i've heard many people saying that these two future consoles would not match or even get close to the level of graphical fidelity seen by high end PC ports of games today.

    I generally disagreed with that notion, but started thinking about it again after NFS Most Wanted's Wii U version was revealed to be enhanced by the PC version's high resolution textures and assets with help from the added 1GB of ram, hence becoming by far the best console version visually with supposedly extremely minimal work from Criterion(they said they just "flipped a switch").

    My question is basically this, going into next gen, can much higher resolution assets for games substitute the need to push more polygons or more advanced rendering techniques, or is it an apples to oranges scenario?
     
  2. fehu

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,435
    Likes Received:
    373
    Location:
    Somewhere over the ocean
    I'm no expert, but to be able to use bigger texture you need bigger bandwidth, and both consoles apparently lack it
     
  3. Inuhanyou

    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Messages:
    786
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Your saying even PS4 with GDDR5 is lacking bandwidth? hmms, something makes me doubt that
     
  4. Scott_Arm

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,167
    Likes Received:
    3,570
    Isn't this what Normal Maps are for?
     
  5. Jedi2016

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    0
    Textures alone can't help a low-poly object (Battlefield 3, I'm looking at you). Polygons on their own aren't really all that taxing, using something like DX11 tessellation (which the next-gen consoles will support).

    The trick is to find a good balance. Give it enough polys to keep away from the blocky look of low-poly objects, round off all the edges and stuff, then add the rest of the detail with a normal map or parallax occlusion mapping.
     
  6. Inuhanyou

    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Messages:
    786
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    I don't know how BF3 on PC was, but wasn't it generally helped by higher resolution assets? Or no?
     
  7. 3dcgi

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    2,432
    Likes Received:
    261
    High resolution textures don't really substitute for polygons, but as Scott_Arm said normal maps can. They work great to simulate detail geometry, but they don't alter silhouettes so there's only so much they can make up for. Even high end PC GPUs need normal maps to substitute for detail geometry. There are other techniques like parallax occlusion mapping.
     
  8. Jedi2016

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    0
    There's a lot of meshes, rocks and debris and such, that are exceptionally low-poly, and look really bad up close. Kind of brings down the overall experience when you come across stuff like that in an otherwise amazing-looking game.
     
  9. Silent_Buddha

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    15,926
    Likes Received:
    4,879
    Yeah, the illusion for them isn't too bad as long as you don't see silhouettes or get too close. For most things it suffices.

    Detail geometry kind of falls apart thought. While they work great for character models, I haven't seen convincing normal maps for geometry. It's still better than what we had before, of course. POM goes a long ways to increasing the illusion, and will suffice in many cases, but even that falls apart. Tessellation of geometry still does the best job, but even that currently has some limitations.

    I'm greatly interested to see which way game rendering goings for the next gen. At the very least I would hope for POM, at best tessellated geometry.

    For character models and such. I have a feeling we'll still have relatively low poly models combined with normal maps. And that's likely to be good enough. Perhaps they'll bump up the poly budget though so that things don't go very very wrong when you view them at relatively close distances (2-3 meters).

    Regards,
    SB
     
  10. fehu

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,435
    Likes Received:
    373
    Location:
    Somewhere over the ocean
    You mentioned high end pc, so yes, ps4 is lacking bandwidth
     
  11. onQ

    onQ
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,540
    Likes Received:
    55
    176GB/s is a lack of Bandwidth?
     
  12. Inuhanyou

    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Messages:
    786
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    "high end", not "enthusiast market" If its fine for a 680 its fine for what i'm referring to
     
  13. Laa-Yosh

    Laa-Yosh I can has custom title?
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    9,568
    Likes Received:
    1,452
    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    Er, is this thread time traveling from the past or what? :)
     
  14. Strange

    Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,416
    Likes Received:
    38
    Location:
    Somewhere out there
    We all time travel from the past. :smile:
    Where do you come from? The future? :lol:
     
  15. fehu

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,435
    Likes Received:
    373
    Location:
    Somewhere over the ocean
    If the purpose is to beat high end pc card in bandwidth, a littler bandwidth is littler than a bigger bandwidth. But I must consult wikipedia about this bigger littler stuff...
    If the premise is "compensate TF with BW", 176GB/s is even more lacking
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...