Business aspects of Subscription Game Libraries [Xbox GamePass, PSNow]

The problem is that game prices (cost to make games) is also increasing...so, let’s say they go up by 5% p/y (which I think is a low forecast) - then you have to build your model over and above that.

I’m just still struggling with what will have to give because I can’t see it getting enough subscribers- @Johnny Awesome seems to think they can hit 100m.

Well firstly that implies a significant amount of PC gamers will subscribe, do we have any data on how PC gamers feel about subscription models? Console gamers have been paying since XBLive so are well and truly used to it. What percentage of EA Access is on which platform?

And even then I’d love to get an idea what % currently pay full price.
I think that's unavoidable. We have annual inflation as well. It's in MS best interests to produce technologies and support tools that will lower the cost of game development. But as the cost of game development increases, eventually the cost of subscription should increase as well.
 
I'm not understanding the relevance but maybe we've off-track. I took her earlier comment about Microsoft being large as perhaps a reference to the old warchest argument but perhaps I was mistaken.
Oh yea, I wasn't talking about the war chest. I was just referring to not going over budget for the year, that way as crazy as payouts may sound/read to developers, there's a limit to spending each year.

I can't imagine anybody is signing multi-year long contracts for GamePass with Microsoft and it's not like Microsoft are growing their user base in double digit percentages every quarter. So this isn't about the contracts they're signing now suddenly disadvantaging publishers, but say in five years time if Microsoft have 20 million GamePass subscribers, are they still paying these generous up front packages regards of the number of plays/downloads for games?
Currently I dno't know how much more growth there is for the service. Game Pass was introduced about a year ago and we're at 10M or over. That's fairly massive, and a growth rate of 10M a year is fairly huge. My spreadsheet indicated significantly less, at 2M per year. I guess the question is, in 5 years, what the new packages will be? And I don't know, and I don't know if the developers know either. They will have more data to help guide them on what a reasonable deal is. Unfortunately I can't say if anyone is right or wrong, I can only say that if the return is no longer valuable to both publishers and MS would exit. I think for now we only know that there is value.

It's unsustainable if they want to increase profitability. If I'm a dev now and Microsoft offer with 4 million credits for my game with their 10 million subscribers, if they have 20 millions I'm going to be looking at 8 million credits (more with inflation). What model of business economics reduces the overall costs as the user base scales (because so does the infrastructure costs)?

I'm not sure why you keep talking about budgets, budgets are not magic, not do guarantee return, profit or even revenue. You can have the best business model in the world with tiered budgets and still end up out of pocket because plenty of companies have faced exactly this. Having a budget doesn't mean you're going to succeed, or your profitability will scale with demand or that you won't be faced with higher costs from people whose software you want.

The key factor about budgets is to explain your upper point, which is, what are economic factors to reduce costs as the user base scales upwards. The budget puts an upper limit on spend, that way in our discussions we aren't talking about different topics of how payouts to developers will suddenly run away and become uncontrollable.

The budget keeps us aligned on the idea that despite whatever lucrative deals MS may propose (like signing Ninja, Shroud etc), there is a budget. And if expectations aren't meant, then they'll drop it as we saw with Mixer. So if we take Game Pass, if there is large spend, the expectation should be increased subscriber base, and I think if that gulf keeps expanding then MS will let it go. If it is narrowing, MS will keep the course.
 
We've gotten similar news before but here's Bloomberg's article with some more details...

On Aug. 11, Microsoft Corp. posted an alert on the Twitter account of its Halo franchise: The game’s next installment wouldn’t be ready this fall as originally planned, with its release delayed until 2021. A few years ago, that would have been devastating news for the team that makes the company’s Xbox game console, which had been planning to roll out a new model in tandem with Halo Infinite. But the Xbox will arrive as scheduled in November, and Microsoft is bullish about its prospects—even though Sony Corp.’s rival PlayStation 5 will also make its debut in the coming months, with what many players say is a stronger slate of games. Central to Microsoft’s optimism is a service called Game Pass, which offers a vast selection of titles for a flat monthly fee. “We’re confident,” says Sarah Bond, the vice president who oversees relations with game creators. “We will launch with thousands of games.”

Game Pass and similar offerings from Apple, Google, Sony, and other software houses are changing the dynamics of the video game business. After spending hundreds of dollars on a game machine, users would typically have to lay out an additional $60 or so for any newly released A-list title they wanted to play. Now a subscription costing $5 to $15 per month will get them scores, or even hundreds, of games—including, in Microsoft’s case, hot titles on the day they’re released. Since Game Pass was introduced three years ago, Microsoft has signed up 10 million subscribers. Sony, which started its PlayStation Now service in 2014, has some 2.2 million customers, more than triple the number a year earlier after the price was cut in half, to $10 per month. “Subscriptions will play a big role in driving engagement,” says George Jijiashvili, an analyst at researcher Omdia.

Subscriptions can keep revenue flowing even when a company has no new console or blockbuster title. Game Pass is available in 41 countries, and Microsoft is adding the ability to stream games to Android devices. This fall it’s tripling the number of countries where it sells what it calls All Access, which gives customers a new console and a Game Pass subscription for a monthly fee that’s currently $20 to $25, similar to cellphone contracts that periodically give you a new handset. The company says deals with Walmart Inc. and Target Corp. will help boost sales of All Access.

Contrary to expectations, Bond says, monthly plans get customers to spend more. A Game Pass subscription leads to about 20% more playing time. Users sample a wider variety of genres, and they generate 20% more in sales, both on titles not included in the plan and on extras such as downloadable content. Game Pass helped increase revenue for Xbox content and services by 65% in the most recent quarter. “People make this assumption that if you have a subscription, you stop buying games,” Bond says, but the opposite is true.

The risk for subscription providers is that game fans may tire of paying multiple monthly fees, much as TV fans are starting to wonder whether they really need Netflix and Hulu and Disney+ and HBO Max. But industry watchers say there’s plenty of room for growth because the games business lags video and music in converting buyers to subscribers. While subscriptions make up almost 90% of premium video revenue, Omdia says, they account for less than a fifth of the $53 billion in annual sales of console and PC games.

Although Microsoft offers game makers an upfront payment and bonuses based on how well a title does, producers aren’t entirely enthusiastic. Many, particularly makers of smash-hit games, fret that subscription services will shake up the industry in the same way platforms such as Apple, Pandora, and Spotify changed music, taking the biggest slice of revenue. A survey by the Game Developers Conference found that almost three-fourths of developers fear subscriptions might hurt the value of individual games. Still, it’s a hit-driven business with myriad titles jockeying for attention, and even successful studios often worry about covering costs. For them, Game Pass can seem like a sure thing. “You get a good influx of cash as an advance,” says Dan Da Rocha, studio chief at Jaw Drop Games. “It’s a very good helping hand.”

Simon Byron, publishing director of Curve Digital, a software house in London, says Game Pass has helped win new fans for his puzzle games, which aren’t typical console fare. Microsoft says 60% of people who played Curve’s Human: Fall Flat on Game Pass had never done puzzles before, and two-fifths of those bought a similar title after playing. While individual sales of the $15 game are comparable on Xbox and PlayStation, five times more customers have tried it on Game Pass, according to Byron. “We were genuinely nervous, but so far we’ve been really pleased,” he says. “Selfishly, the service is becoming so popular with other publishers that it’s become harder to put our titles there, but that’s a sign they’re doing something right.”

BOTTOM LINE - Where users once had to lay out $60 for the latest games, they can now get access to hundreds for $5 to $15 per month—including hot titles on the day they’re released.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...cription-is-dramatically-changing-video-games

Looks like 3 times more countries will get Xbox All Access. Currently, it's available in the US, UK, Australia, and New Zealand. So 8 more countries?

Tommy McClain
 
"
Contrary to expectations, Bond says, monthly plans get customers to spend more. A Game Pass subscription leads to about 20% more playing time. Users sample a wider variety of genres, and they generate 20% more in sales, both on titles not included in the plan and on extras such as downloadable content. Game Pass helped increase revenue for Xbox content and services by 65% in the most recent quarter. “People make this assumption that if you have a subscription, you stop buying games,” Bond says, but the opposite is true."

This is very good for gas games. You get a person on the game and start making money though play time via the subscription and then in game purchases.

its also good for games getting a longer life . First you release the game and get a pop of sales and then you price drop until it finally ends up on game pass and you get new people in and at that point the goal is to sell the dlc and expansions to those who own the game not trying to sell the original game to those who don't own it
 
As long as the concept doesn't end up like the mobile market where the games are cheap or free and games are (re)designed around MTX.
 
As long as the concept doesn't end up like the mobile market where the games are cheap or free and games are (re)designed around MTX.
hate to break it to you but most games are moving towards it. GAS is the future of the majority of games.

I mean unless your Nintendo the games you release in Nov are 50% off or more by February . If they keep a steady stream of content coming and charge you small prices for cosmetics and other stuff they are going to do it if it means your in the game for a year or more and they make money off you
 
The key factor about budgets is to explain your upper point, which is, what are economic factors to reduce costs as the user base scales upwards. The budget puts an upper limit on spend, that way in our discussions we aren't talking about different topics of how payouts to developers will suddenly run away and become uncontrollable.
People know what budgets are. Nintendo had a budget for the Wii U. Sony had a budget for the PS3. Microsoft had a budget for Windows Phone. None of these products were a commercial success when each company were operating in a well-established area of business in which they had a tremendous amount of experience. Budgets don't mean jack, other than you are aware of your costs. Budgets are estimates - never more so than when you are doing something new for which there is no actual data on which to make budget predictions.

If all the third party publishers start demanding more compensation for their products inclusion in the subscription and Microsoft stick to their budgets, there will be less variety in GamePass. Microsoft have no control over this.
 
"
Contrary to expectations, Bond says, monthly plans get customers to spend more. A Game Pass subscription leads to about 20% more playing time. Users sample a wider variety of genres, and they generate 20% more in sales, both on titles not included in the plan and on extras such as downloadable content. Game Pass helped increase revenue for Xbox content and services by 65% in the most recent quarter. “People make this assumption that if you have a subscription, you stop buying games,” Bond says, but the opposite is true."

This is very good for gas games. You get a person on the game and start making money though play time via the subscription and then in game purchases.

its also good for games getting a longer life . First you release the game and get a pop of sales and then you price drop until it finally ends up on game pass and you get new people in and at that point the goal is to sell the dlc and expansions to those who own the game not trying to sell the original game to those who don't own it
We’ve been over this before, but I want to see how they got to their figures - you can spin data to say exactly what you want it to. I want to understand the data behind the PR.
 
We’ve been over this before, but I want to see how they got to their figures - you can spin data to say exactly what you want it to. I want to understand the data behind the PR.
i doubt you will ever see it. I can tell you although i don't have to buy game pass i have used the discount to purchase content on some games i've enjoyed trying out. I just recently bought some kingdom come dlc
 
We’ve been over this before, but I want to see how they got to their figures - you can spin data to say exactly what you want it to. I want to understand the data behind the PR.

Quit asking for something you know you'll never get. Buy some shares in the company & see if you can get your answers that way. If not, go buy some market research. Good luck, that data isn't cheap.

Tommy McClain
 
Quit asking for something you know you'll never get. Buy some shares in the company & see if you can get your answers that way. If not, go buy some market research. Good luck, that data isn't cheap.

This information isn't included in Microsoft's published reports and Microsoft don't provide that level of information even to investors.

I can understand how GamePass subscribers do play more than non-subscribers on average and I think it's easy to comprehend how an all-you-can-eat game buffet will appeal to appeal to folks who game a lot because the more you game, the greater the appeal of a flat rate service. And Microsoft found that increased play was "And not just with Game Pass games, but with other games on the Xbox One as well." - which I think is typical behaviour for other content like movies, TV shows and books when you find something you like and look for more from the same studio/author/team or look for more content in that genre, some of which will be outside of GamePass.

The $64,000,000 (or 40,000,000 non-subscribing Xbox owners) question is why there aren't more GamePass subscribers? I think the answer is probably the same reason more people don't go to all-you-can-eat buffet restaurants or use monthly all-you-can-watch cinema passes: they just can't, or don't want too, consume more food/cinema/games. We folks who routinely post or read forums are a minuscule outlier in gaming. Last year there was a story that PS4 had "a very high attach rate" with the average owning having ten games :runaway:, which for me feels super low - I think I have a 120+ PS4 games and maybe 30-40+ on Switch.

Low attach rates aren't necessarily about cost but also time and interest. I'm a filthy casual hardcore gamer, i.e. I finished The Last of Us 2 (a 30+ hour game) in three days, which is a hell of a daily time commitment, but I've not turned the PS4 on for a good two weeks. Sometimes it will sit idle for months because other things are filling my down time.

If you game very rarely, even if GamePass could save you money in the long term (it may not if you want specific games outside of what it offers), then you're probably never really doing that mental arithmetic to work that out and subscribe to it. It's the same reason people rarely workout if there mortgage is the cheapest, or if there gas/electric/water/insurance is the best deal. It's just not that prominent a thing for most people to think about it and getting GamePass on the radar of folks like that is going to be very difficult.

This is probably the biggest challenge of growing GamePass.
 
i doubt you will ever see it. I can tell you although i don't have to buy game pass i have used the discount to purchase content on some games i've enjoyed trying out. I just recently bought some kingdom come dlc
And this kind of highlights my issue with the data.

Anyone can make an account, get a free trial, use that to buy a game at discount, play a couple games and then never use the account again.

The PR stats say this account never played games before getting game pass and bought more games when he was a game pass subber.

Do you see what I mean? (BTW that’s a very basic example to show what I’m talking about).
 
I don't agree with the GamePass skeptics. I think the reasons it doesn't have more than 10 million subscribers are:

- It's fairly new (time will fix this)
- Needs more content (MS buying studios left and right to fix this)
- xCloud is in it's infancy (bandwidth increasing over time will make this viable)

IMO the end game (20+ years away) is server side with light client (PC or Box). The reason is that this would reduce hardware costs by 90% as only 10% of the user base is gaming at any one time during peak hours.

I truly believe GamePass is the future for delivering content for such a service.

It's more casual friendly than people realize. Most people don't finish games as they lose interest. It's cool to play halfway through Ori, Witcher 3, Forza season, Halo campaign, Fable, Grounded, play a little Sea of Thieves and Battletoads without having to buy 8 games. Just buy GamePass instead. It's on autopilot. Don't even have to think about it.

Especially true when MS is putting out serious titles every quarter once their soon to be 20 studios are cranking out content.
 
And this kind of highlights my issue with the data.

Anyone can make an account, get a free trial, use that to buy a game at discount, play a couple games and then never use the account again.

The PR stats say this account never played games before getting game pass and bought more games when he was a game pass subber.

Do you see what I mean? (BTW that’s a very basic example to show what I’m talking about).

You could do that but it seems like a lot of work and waste to do so. There are other hooks to keep people on the service. You have achievements and online play also so i guess maybe you spend $1 on game pass and play something for a month and then you make a new account and play something njew is what your saying .Each time changing emails and making new ones and using new credit cards or getting gift cards ? I mean do people do this constantly with netflix and all other subscription services ?

What % of people are going to do that ? You think my sister will do that for my nephew every month ? My sister will just put her credit card on file and let it bill her yearly and that will be my nephews Christmas gift every year (well she will have me buy it cause i get 50% off but you get the point) My cousin will do the same for her son. I am sure the majority of the subscribers will do that.

its also why part of their plan is having a large release every other month or every three months. They want to get to a point where people will subscribe and stay subscribed because big games are constantly dropped on the service. Its the same thing Netflix did/ does. Netflix is much further along then MS is but Netflix started making their own content and have their own stuff go up almost weekly now
 
You could do that but it seems like a lot of work and waste to do so. There are other hooks to keep people on the service. You have achievements and online play also so i guess maybe you spend $1 on game pass and play something for a month and then you make a new account and play something njew is what your saying .Each time changing emails and making new ones and using new credit cards or getting gift cards ? I mean do people do this constantly with netflix and all other subscription services ?

What % of people are going to do that ? You think my sister will do that for my nephew every month ? My sister will just put her credit card on file and let it bill her yearly and that will be my nephews Christmas gift every year (well she will have me buy it cause i get 50% off but you get the point) My cousin will do the same for her son. I am sure the majority of the subscribers will do that.

its also why part of their plan is having a large release every other month or every three months. They want to get to a point where people will subscribe and stay subscribed because big games are constantly dropped on the service. Its the same thing Netflix did/ does. Netflix is much further along then MS is but Netflix started making their own content and have their own stuff go up almost weekly now
All I’m saying is this skews the data. It’s like sharing accounts, if you share accounts getting GP and buying games through that one account makes perfect sense and just let the other account go idle. The data will show the person with the non GP account doesn’t buy games but the person with the GP account is buying more games all of a sudden (because it’s 2 people buying games through one account).

It’s like we know for a fact that many people don’t pay for GP, hell I have it up until 2022 and I paid very little...yet I will count as a subscriber, you yourself admit you only pay half price.

You can’t compare to Netflix as you can’t buy films.
 
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All I’m saying is this skews the data. It’s like sharing accounts, if you share accounts getting GP and buying games through that one account makes perfect sense and just let the other account go idle. The data will show the person with the non GP account doesn’t buy games but the person with the GP account is buying more games all of a sudden (because it’s 2 people buying games through one account).
All data is skewed if this is your definition of skew. Skew is usually brought into play when you have an expected target, and you missed that target by an amount of variation. That is skew. If your definition of skew means non pure results, then by default all accounting and anything economic will fall into this category. this isn't chemistry where we have methods of filtering out impurities, impurities in data will exist but that doesn't make it less useful. It's like saying because guns will never hit the exact same spot twice on a field test, the data is skewed and we have no real measure of accuracy. When in reality, the way we measure something like that is to just shoot it several times and measure the variance to get an idea of accuracy.

In this case we do the same with game pass, we take a look at subscriber count and purchase history of said subscriber count. You look at their previous history of purchasing prior to subscriber count. And you can run very basic like a 2 sample t test to determine if it indeed a shift in behaviour or just a something within deviation. We have entire degrees of education (statistics) that are dedicated to answering questions just like yours and these questions arise everywhere in every business and are not specific to problems that could exist within gamepass itself; MS is well staffed to figure these numbers out.


It’s like we know for a fact that many people don’t pay for GP, hell I have it up until 2022 and I paid very little...yet I will count as a subscriber, you yourself admit you only pay half price.
This is attributed to cost of acquisition. And as long as they are willing to put that deal out there, they have budget to acquire more in this method. This is separate from the success of the service or even the revenue of the service. We can pick and choose a million reasons as to how people are exploiting the service. But you haven't once talked about all the people that are purchasing more through the service once being apart of it. The additional DLC, or MT type transactions that are occurring as as result of now being able to play and test more games than they previously had the chance to.

You can’t compare to Netflix as you can’t buy films.
What relevancy is there towards buying films? Film purchasing on a whole is declining.
 
All data is skewed if this is your definition of skew. Skew is usually brought into play when you have an expected target, and you missed that target by an amount of variation. That is skew. If your definition of skew means non pure results, then by default all accounting and anything economic will fall into this category. this isn't chemistry where we have methods of filtering out impurities, impurities in data will exist but that doesn't make it less useful. It's like saying because guns will never hit the exact same spot twice on a field test, the data is skewed and we have no real measure of accuracy. When in reality, the way we measure something like that is to just shoot it several times and measure the variance to get an idea of accuracy.

In this case we do the same with game pass, we take a look at subscriber count and purchase history of said subscriber count. You look at their previous history of purchasing prior to subscriber count. And you can run very basic like a 2 sample t test to determine if it indeed a shift in behaviour or just a something within deviation. We have entire degrees of education (statistics) that are dedicated to answering questions just like yours and these questions arise everywhere in every business and are not specific to problems that could exist within gamepass itself; MS is well staffed to figure these numbers out.



This is attributed to cost of acquisition. And as long as they are willing to put that deal out there, they have budget to acquire more in this method. This is separate from the success of the service or even the revenue of the service. We can pick and choose a million reasons as to how people are exploiting the service. But you haven't once talked about all the people that are purchasing more through the service once being apart of it. The additional DLC, or MT type transactions that are occurring as as result of now being able to play and test more games than they previously had the chance to.


What relevancy is there towards buying films? Film purchasing on a whole is declining.
Of course all data has a skew, the difference here (and using your example) is that some of the bullets have been tampered with.

The lack of clarity over the data means we don’t really understand (and likely never will). But here’s another example, I have had an account forever, going back to OXB. I hardly ever bought games, but recently I have been more affluent and had more game time, I got GP and bought a couple games. This will show as GP somehow magically making me play and buy more games when in fact it was just because I had more time and money. And that questions how much lockdown will skew figures even further from the reality.

I talked about people buying within the service (previously to the bit I just mentioned), but that was how Netflix got brought into the conversation. I said people might get a free trial or open a new account just to get a discount on a game. Hence I said Netflix couldn’t be compared because you wouldn’t trial Netflix to buy a film.
 
Of course all data has a skew, the difference here (and using your example) is that some of the bullets have been tampered with.

The lack of clarity over the data means we don’t really understand (and likely never will). But here’s another example, I have had an account forever, going back to OXB. I hardly ever bought games, but recently I have been more affluent and had more game time, I got GP and bought a couple games. This will show as GP somehow magically making me play and buy more games when in fact it was just because I had more time and money. And that questions how much lockdown will skew figures even further from the reality.

I talked about people buying within the service (previously to the bit I just mentioned), but that was how Netflix got brought into the conversation. I said people might get a free trial or open a new account just to get a discount on a game. Hence I said Netflix couldn’t be compared because you wouldn’t trial Netflix to buy a film.

Once again, as someone who works in the industry those factors, while are there, or essentially non factors on a line of regression. There are much harder data points to solve than this, in particular the data is much more complete than other industries.
If you are working for Google say as a Data Lead; their job is to prove how much a company spends on AdWords will directly correlate to sales.
It doesn’t matter if they see an ad and buy it online. Or in stores etc. They just need to show the conversion formula. Ie, for every 1M you spend on advertising with google you will get back 1.4M in revenue. That’s their full time job and each data lead has a specific vertical they cover with each team.

and you can think of every reason under the sun why you might see an ad or never click on an ad. But as long as that conversion ratio is right, the spend will equate to revenue.

That job is much harder to do than to prove GamePass increases spending. There are so many incomplete data points on google, where Xbox has all your stats on game time, play times, accounts, what you’re looking at, what your friends are doing, etc.

if you are upset about MS data points, then you should be just as angry about the idea of ad words conversions. Because the click through rate is less than 0.01%. And no one you know clicks on ads. No one.

and yet the google continues to make huge profits from it. Through google, through YouTube, etc.

It is a large industry and it's not exactly straight forward. But to understand how digital advertising makes money (and gamepass is sort of fits into similar metrics on that) you should look at understanding just the most basic form which is Google Adwords campaigns.

Even basic calculators here:
https://rothmanppc.com/profit/

for instance can provide a ballpark of where to expect your profits to land despite not calculating for so many millions of iterations of things that can occur. The data lead job is for larger jobs like advertising for Ford or Mazda, but even at a micro scale, you can start somewhere to get an idea of how much spend is required to obtain a profit. With gamepass you might work with another set of numbers such as; hours played, number of friends, etc. number of players that need to play to get a single purchase/dlc etc. What the average spend is from a gamepass spender if they do buy etc.

It's not nearly as inaccurate as you say, and MS can provide some basic calculations to showcase that gamepass is increasing spend with certain companies, and if that is happening, those companies are likely to stick around and continue to use that service.

I don't assume that most people pay attention to how digital marketing has changed the game. But the level that we go to, to exploit your own information and use it back against you for hyper consumerism is immense. You think the only reason you bought more games is because you have more money to spend now, or some other reason. That's certainly a much more welcoming thought to believe than to know we are data mining your browser, your apps, your microphone, all your social media, your geo locations, you Alex/Google home units, your text etc and finding the exact things you would buy. At one point in time, my job (as part of a very large team) was to come up with a solution to tell the government how many residents were breaking quarantine during the height of COVID, which areas you would go, and which areas we would shut down as a result to stop people from doing that.

There are whole companies that are dedicated to using this data for the purpose of election purchasing. With respect, gamepass spending is trivial.

There are full books and studies on this that should be read by anyone in digital marketing:
https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/marketing-resources/micro-moments/zero-moment-truth/

quick summary; Whether we're shopping for corn flakes, concert tickets or a honeymoon in Paris, the Internet has changed how we decide what to buy. At Google, we call this online decision-making moment the Zero Moment of Truth, or simply, ZMOT. The ZMOT refers to the moment in the buying process when the consumer researches a product prior to purchase.

Emphasis mine; as gamepass is a basically the best consumer researching service for testing games before purchase.
 
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