Black Isle Studios now... blackest?

Grandia 2 isn't squaresoft. BTW, I'm pleased you listed pikmin as RTS, I keep telling people that is a console RTS title, even if it does have action/adventure elements.

Anyhow, too bad black isle is gone, but I only really liked the fallout games from them. Fantasy settings bore me(I've seen so many that non cyborg dragons are almost like true history to me!), and I didn't like the semi real time play, nor the little of level 7. Or the endless hack and slash, followed by like an hour of dialogue. At least that's what the demo of one of their games I played was like, fallout had a nice balance where dialogue was interspersed throughout the combat. I would like to see another game as fun as fallout with a futuristic/modern setting, fallout didn't really have anything left to continue the main story line, it would have had to be all side stories or completely unrelated stories.(like Tactics) I'll miss black isle, but I haven't bought one of their games since fallout 2.

 

Indeed !
My dearest excuses to people of GameArts (http://www.gamearts.com/) who did bring this fantastic title to the Dreamcast.

Pikmin was my most pleasent surprise on the Cube, Wind Waker and it's very nice graphic style came second.

Linear games are good, you just need to insert a few side quests per Chapter/Place (2-5) to have some freedom.
Strong main story with some side stories having some effect on the main story is the best IMO, I came to this conclusion having mastered role playing game during ten years. You just can't leave the players out in the void, complete freedom leads to boredom.

 

BG1 was soso, BG2 was great, BG2-TOB was soso.

I would love to have seen project Jefferson published, it couldnt have been too far removed from shipping ... I dont like what Bioware has been doing with their D&D stamped games since BIS stopped producing them.

With BIS gone, and with Troika's TOEE release being FUBAR there is not much reason to optimism for people who like party based cRPGs for the PC. (If Troika could just get a game out polished for fucking once they would have a hit, reviewers love them.)

 

Off the top of my head


pc RPG:
Gothic, Gothic 2, Dungeon Siege, The Temple of Elemental Evil, KOTOR,
Boulders Gate Series, NWN, ARX Fatalis,

pc FPS/3rdpersonshooters:
No One Lives forever 2, Star Trek Elite Forces 2, XIII, Raven Shield, Halo PC, Call Of Duty, Hitman2, MaxPayne 2, Dues Ex 2, Splinter Cell, Tron2.0,Operation Flashpoint, Soldier of fourtune 2, Theif Series, BF1942,

pc Action titles:
Gladiator Sword Of Vengence, Jedi knight Academy, Jedi knight II, Prince Of Persia, TMNT, Chaos Legion*dont consider ita an rpg*, LOTR return of the king, Savage, Freedom Force

pc adventure games:
The Black Mirror, Silent Hill 3, Uru Ages Beyond Myst, Myst series, Beyond Good & Evil, Broken Sword 3

Pc Strategy games:
C&C Generals, HomeWorld II, Hegemonia, Rise Of Nations, Silent Storm, Warcraft 3, Rail Road Tycoon, Disciples series, Europe 1400 The Guild, Civilization series, Medieval Total War, O.R.B. , Port Royale 2, Sim City series,

Pc Racing games:
Simpsons Hit & Run, NFSU, Colin Mcrae 3

space:
Freelancer, Wing Commander series, X-series, Freespace series, Eve Online,

These are all games that I have played recently ie within the last couple months if you give me some time I can find you A LOT more pc games that aren't well known but should be, the problem I have right now is almost every console game that has come out has bored me to death excluding 2 that I can think of. Like SH3 most over rated game I ever played! Drove me nuts you couldn't interact with any of the environments in any way they were all static placement art. 98% of console games are so linear I get bored within 15min and never have the urge to pick them up again.

 

wow 98% of console games are linear but you picked dungeoen siege?????Kotor was avialable on consoles first. Baldurs gate is as linear as any final fantasy series.

And a lot of games from most genres you picked are avialable on all consoles, and probably first at that, AND are well known on them.

Just thought i would point out the eisy flaws in your statement.

I really dont see the point of arguing what platform makes good games. All the platforms have good games. A gamer shouldnt care, just be happy. It sux that black isle is going down, but just for a thought, if they made the games they made for pc's for consoles, they most likely would have been alive and kicking.

Either way, hope bioware keeps in the game for a long time. Thank god kotor was a MASSIVE seller on xbox. Obviously it wont sell as well on pc, but at least they made thier cash.

 

You really think something like PST or IWD, would work on consoles? (Without dumbing down ... not even to a NWN level, and certainly not to a KOTOR level). I think the interface would be a bit of a problem.

 

BG2 isn't all that linear, if you recall chapter 2.

 

No i don't really think iwd or pst would really work on consoles. But a bad console game in term of sales still comes close to a great computer game in terms of sales and that would make them a lot of money. Rpg's are a bit part of consoles as well. Its just a different sort of rpg. I loved torment, i love kotor, chrono trigger and the old ff's, lands of lore, eob 1&2, older might and magics.

Graphics are truly the least important aspect of games to me. As long as it looks good, plays great and is memorable. I still go back and play old snes, genesis games. Damn for some reason i feel like playing maniac mansion 2 right now.

Computer games in general are more complex, no body i think disputes that. But complexity doesn't always equal fun, plus each platform lends itself to specific genre of games.

I love my console for sports, rpgs, beat em up, action, car racing games.

I love my pc for playing movies, rpgs, rts, turn bases, online games.


John reynolds: Never really played bg series, but i heard a lot about it from my friends. I heard about the story line and such, shouldn't have made generalizations i guess. Sorry. But my point really was, that there is a start point and you know where it ends as you start the game, but there are a lot of differenet things in the way to get there. All rpgs in general are like that. The only 1 i have played that is as different to that general style is chrono trigger, because you can finish it in a multitude of ways(9 endings i think), and almost everything you did mattered.

 

Oh it's definately for sale...sorta.

 

I think you're shootin a bit over the top by just assuming that just about any game will sell better on a console junkheap, that's what some publishers seem to think, but in the end they still go bancrupt because that is more of a myth they try to cling to than actual fact. CAN games sell better on consloes than on PC? Sure! MUST they? Nope! WILL they? That depends!

I think you can find dozens of exceptions, games selling millions of units on PC, that would barely make a dent in console sales staticstics. There are many flops and financial desasters on colsoles too, targeting them doesn't make just any game more financially viable, especially since there are many genres that are still immensely popular on PC and just don't work right on consoles.

The PC gaming market has been existant for what, like 2 decades now and its death has been proclaimed more often than I can care to remember. Even if publishers like Interplay, in their desperate struggle for profit, think a console-only strategy will save them (how about producing high quality games gamers want instead), you'll find many other publishers who are still happy to invest millions into PC games and make a healthy profit off it. The simple point beeing, in the end its still about the games and not the platform...

 

Exactly. BG 2 had tons of replay value because you could things in different order with different characters.

Doing all available quests in chapter 2/3 would make you a demigod (crazy kit and exp) and you could coast through the rest of the game. Of course you only figured this out the 3rd or 4th time you played through it.

Cheers
Gubbi

 

True, but i didn't really mean it that everything made for console is guaranteed good sales. I just meant that it wouldnt really be a bad thing to make them for consoles as well. Console player, like the ones on xbox, would love to see rpg's released for thier system, since there aren't any other than kotor. You wouldnt really have to dumb it down or anything, but just cater to the rpg players that would love this sort of stuff. Square is great at what they do, and they are slowly moving to pc. They make bulk of thier money on consoles, but why not entice pc gamers, and open up to whole new audiences who would not pick up a console to play ff. It just add more potential to suceed, with imo a little worthwile chance to take. I can only see benefits. I understand that there are a lot of companies making money in just the pc arena(blizzard, etc), but unfortunately its easier to take a chance on consoles and fail than it is on PC(IMO, mainly again due to sales)

I doubt the pc gaming world will come to its death, never said that and never hope that. But gaming on a console is far cheaper and more accessible to the masses, hence for most people it will be the platform of choice. I think people still have the image that pc is for work, and video editing, copying cd's and stuff.

 

The fact is that almost every good game for each console makes its way to the pc and when it does it generally looks better and runs a lot faster. Only down side is if you dont have a good controller they play like ass! But I just use a PSJOY so I can use a ps2 controller and its great. The only games that dont make it to pc are on the gamecube which doesn't have many games I am personally interested in but would probably be the only console I would buy at the moment.

OHHH and Grand Turismo series... thats the only game I wish came to pc that doesn't for ps2.

If you want to talk rpg's why is their no game anywhere near the Gothic Series for the consoles? This series is easily my favorite rpg's of all time. Just the freedom to do as I please everywhere I go and still have a decent story and extremely emersive world! I just love how everything you do actually seems to matter in these games. The voice acting is great and is just so much more fun to play then any rpg in recent memory.

and if you look at the list you will notice that its about 50/50 some area's are almost all pc only some are almost all console only. And They all are on the pc so why invest all the extra money on consoles when *atleast for me* I already need a good pc to do all my *programing, video editing, tv watching, movies, Photoshopin' * why not just put a decent vid card into that same system for the price of 1 console and bam you can play almost all good titles across the board? (excluding GC ofcourse)

 

You know this is utterly worng. Most chart toppers for sony do not make it onto pc, same for gc, and somewhat for xbox, but we understand why in the last one. I was just pointing out that you said that most games you recently played for consoles were ultra boring, but the fact it that those games were out for consoles first and pc later.

I never played the gothic series and never heard of it at all. Maybe i should look it up, but sorry you can't compare square soft to anything else in the rpg world other than bioware.

Sure you can spend the cost of hte console on a vid card, but comeon, where did the rest of the system that you need come from? As a gaming machine you cannot compare one to another. But as a total complete package other than game playing, obvioulsy the pc is the hands down winner.

And again, no one is arguing whether pc's have better graphics or not, of course they do!, but GRAPHICS don't make a game. Graphics will only keep you interested for 20 min, whereas the game play, story and funfactor keep you hooked, and you can do that on any platform. Why can't pc gamers and console gamer just get along?

 

I loved doing the mage stronghold quest, killing those demented hobbits running about, having my own lab, watching my pupils blow themselves up while successfully crafting a staff of the magi for me, defending the sphere against attacks, having my own golem who patrolled my home, etc. I should replay it with the Throne of Bhaal exp. but I'm trying to finish KotOR and just got both NWN expansions in the mail. And there's Gothic 2, which I have about 20 hours into already. . . .

 

for me the only good square RPG was Final Fantasy Tactics and they never made a sequal I cant stand any of the normal final fantasy series they bore me to death. No strategy to the games and no freedom. Now if they ever made a sequal to tactics then I would love them but I doubt they ever will (not counting the gba version of tactics).

 

You say that you don't really care about graphics, yet insist that Squaresoft can't be compared to anything else? Doesn't make sense, they're still "merely" a game developer. Their production values, storytelling and design are outstanding and can hardly be matched by any western developer, but that doesn't change the fact that many people find their gameplay inherently boring. I can enjoy their pretty FMVs as much as your next guy, but the gameplay is not beyond reproach, and that's what games are about in the end. Squaresoft games are visually almost without equal (not technically but certainly in an aesthetic sense), but that's about as far as your argument holds.

The Gothic series, which is created by a small german development studio with only about a dozen employees, has a rich and depth to it that managed to draw me into the gameworld like almost no other game ever has, despite the many small flaws that undoubtedly hold the game back (too many bugs without the patches, only average graphics, awkward controls and a sometimes frustrating combat system to name just a few). These games represent a fundamentally different approach toward RPG gaming than FF, so if you really dig FF style games, I imagine it could be pretty hard to get into Gothic because it is just that different...

I agree with your point that many of the top console titles don't hit the PC though. Games like GTA3, SH3 or Splinter Cell are still the exception rather than the rule. Sure there are many multiplatform titles that hit the PC too, but many of the exclusive titles, especially for GC and PS2, never make it onto PC or are significantly delayed.

As for PC and console gamers getting along, I don't think it will ever happen. I consider myself being both, but many console gamers would still argue "but an Xbox isn't really a console"...

 

Isn't the upcoming FFXII being directed and produced by the team behind FF Tactics? If so then you might wanna check that one out...

 

Lets see final fantsy was just a cheap clone of phantsy star. The first 6 of ff were okay. The new ones are boring and shallow. Why not just read a book or watch a pixar movie . It equals the same crap. Square softs rpgs don't hold a candle to sega's rpgs . Talking about pc games . Ultima series (yes even 9) are leaps and bounds above any of the useless crap square can put out . They are lucky they merged with a company that knows how to make a fun rpg .


Btw i'm very upset about this news .