Beyond3D Wolves Needed to Tear This One Apart

Discussion in 'Graphics and Semiconductor Industry' started by JoshMST, Oct 28, 2004.

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  1. JoshMST

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  2. Geo

    Geo Mostly Harmless
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    Your dog is ugly and your mother dresses you funny.

    :p

    There, the rest won't feel so bad after that.
     
  3. banksie

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    First thought from a relative outsider to this business. You describe nVidia as introducing technology each step of the way with the GeForce series.

    I must admit my impression was somewhat different. It seemed more like every second generation introduced technology which usually had performance issues. The next generation then refined that to produce a good part. You can see this with the TNT which was an okay part but refined into the TNT2 which was an excellent part, GeForce which had T&L but that really took off with the GeForce 2 etc...

    Also geometry instancing isn't something that only the newer R420 designs can do. Your article kinda implies this but as I understand it most R300 products can do it quite happily.
     
  4. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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    Josh, what evidence do you have to believe NV50 will be here in Spring '05?
     
  5. JoshMST

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    Evidence? You expect me to have evidence on a speculative piece! :lol:

    Late Spring of 05 was the last hint and rumor that I had heard. Admittedly I would believe that NV50 would be more of a Fall 2005 product, but late Spring was the last whisper that I had heard.
     
  6. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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    How does that reconcile with the public statement that the architectural cycle will be in the order of 18 months?
     
  7. JoshMST

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    Haha, when a certain engineer we all know scoffed at that and said, "I haven't seen it slow down to 18 months yet."
     
  8. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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    :shock: NV2x lasted in excess of two years!??
     
  9. JoshMST

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    Haha, true. I guess I am also basing this off of another individual I know that works very close to NVIDIA that said, "NVIDIA internaly declared war on ATI, and it is honest-to-God no holds barred combat." I think NV might try to be really agressive this next Spring. Now, whether they can actually get significant quantities of parts out at that time...

    Then again the actual reign of the NV3x technology (from when it was first sold on the market as the GeForce FX 5800 to when the NV40 was released) was about 14 months- nevermind that it was initially introduced in November of 2002!
     
  10. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    :lol:

    Josh, I got to give you some big points for coming here and looking for input/criticism...'specially after I re-read your last piece and remembered who ya were! ;)

    It's better, but there is still a bit of a green-tinted bias to it. I'll get more specific in a bit, I gotta go do the dinner thing for the kids.
     
  11. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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    So, when are your expectations for NV47's timescale?
     
  12. JoshMST

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    Yet another piercing question! I thought I had mentioned late Holiday Season 2004 in the article. Also, why is NV48 mentioned in the latest leaked drivers, but not NV47?

    Digital! Green tinted bias! Haha,I can't wait to see the justification for that one.
     
  13. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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    OK, when whomever you spoke to talked about a Q2 '05 / Spring '05 did they specifically mention NV50 or something along the lines of "their next generation part"?
     
  14. JoshMST

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    No, they did not specifically mention NV50.

    Honestly Dave, I am not trying to misguide or push some kind of agenda, I am just working off the best information I could dig up and glean from anyone I could.
     
  15. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    I remember a discussion about what is and isn't normally counted as a transistor, was ATi not counting things or was nVidia counting bits that normally weren't counted? :|

    Uhm, when have their products been second best to whatever is out there? Since their company started to not suck at about the same time that they started reaching out to the community I'd like to think it's more of a corporate philosophy change rather than a PR move to help them in what you imply is their impending downfall.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    There is a reason that there are some details available about the R520 and damn near nothing about the nV50....but I'll leave you to speculate on what that reason may be.

    Ok, one hint. Your almost right on the time, but waaaay off on the product. ;)

    "Match nVidia step for step"? Uhm, nVidia is finally catching back up with ATi...not the other way around. :lol:

    I'm curious, when do you consider the first Golden Age of 3D graphics was? :|
     
  16. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    Oh, and I really did like all the bits about the manufacturing and dust and such. Very interesting reading about stuff I didn't know much about. :)

    Sorry, me last post makes it sound like I didn't like your piece and I think on the balance I actually DID like it so felt it best to post up about it. ;)
     
  17. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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    I know - I'm just feeling you out for info and also trying to steer your thinking. You've already mentioned some clues in this thread that I'm not sure whether you've put all together yet.
     
  18. PeterAce

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    JoshMST,

    Here a few major problems with the article :

    Take a look at this thread (over a year old) :

    http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8005&highlight=pipelines

    http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/ati/r420_x800/index.php?p=8

    As you can see not really 'Shallow and wide'.

    Look at the I've put in bold - you've stated that 'geometry instancing' was created for the X800, where it is now well known that it was designed in the R300 (9700) and all cards since (It's just resently been enabled in currect drivers for all cards including the R3X0 based ones).


    This article reads as if you have skimed a few forums/online articles/PR documents and sort of 'sumed it up' with a bias toward Nvidia.

    Also way to much speculation and opinion and no research or evidance to back up you claims!

    I think you need to read and research a lot more about 3D archtechtures and the related 'design decisions' behind them before writing another 'The State of 3D' article!
     
  19. 3dcgi

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    PeterAce. While the items you posted about may be incorrect I fail to see how that would show an Nvidia bias. I didn't read the article so maybe that's why I'm missing something.
     
  20. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    I have found it to be very helpful in forming an opinion on an article to have actually read said article first. ;)
     
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