Best 4K HDR TV's for One X, PS4 Pro

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by Rangers, Apr 29, 2017.

  1. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    I think it's both. TV as vector and target.

    I mean.. It's full of holes and no manufacturers care with updating the security. Combined with its ubiquity and uniformity and strong processing power... Seems a good target for many malicious thing
     
  2. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    I don't think I've ever encountered a source or sink device which actually implemented HDMI over Ethernet. Cables and switches, sure, but nothing that would actually produce or consume data.
     
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  3. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    There's no such thing as HDMI over ethernet* but HDMI has included an ethernet channel standard since HDMI 1.4. My current and previous smart TVs, both Sony Bravia Android devices, could access the internet when I plugged my laptop (internet over wifi) into the TVs over HDMI. The Samsung TV at work is the same. This is probably a Android/GoogleTV thing.

    *
    probably! ;)
     
  4. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
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    HDMI with Ethernet is definitely a thing and has been standard for quite a while. It's quite literally an Ethernet connection included in the HDMI spec.
     
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  5. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    mcorbo said HDMI over ethernet. It may just have been a mistake but just in case that's a thing (other than just streaming MPEG4 signals) I wanted to clarify that HDMI devices have been stealthy carrying ethernet for a while. Whether (and how) it works probably depends on the networking stack of the device itself. Android is in so many places so it being auto-enabled wouldn't surprise me.
     
  6. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    There is such a thing in that you can run the HDMI protocol over a standard ethernet patch cable (with a converter at each end) for long runs. I got my terms backwards, though. I meant ethernet over HDMI (as implemented in HDMI 1.4+). I literally, though, can't find any reference via any Google search I could conceive of to any Sony or Samsung TV that supports this. They all mention WiFi direct as the method of connecting a laptop or tablet to the TV and any links to questions asking about the feature are answered that it isn't supported by anything. Can you give me a model number so I can look up the manual?
     
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  7. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    It wouldn't surprise me if Google just baked support at OS level to be helpful. They are very motivated to make connecting to the internet as easy as possible. If it makes you feel better, I also did a bunch of google searches to find articles and forum/blog posts on the subject and drew a blank, other than very old posts circa 2012 when HDMI 1.4 was being introduced. I doubt many people really connect (or intend to connect) their smart TV to the internet by plugging in a PC via HDMI. Most people just wouldn't even know network access could be a consequence of this.

    It's a brave new world. A brave new scary world.
     
  8. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    That doesn't seem plausible.

    • Google work to put this feature in its OS and for some reason don't tell anyone about it.
    • Google's (open-source) OS is worked with and deeply customized by hobbyist and professional developers the world over and nobody ever once mentions it anywhere.
    • Somehow, with no configuration, this feature just works to allow your TV to access the internet through your laptop and no one but you ever notices it and posts about it.
     
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  9. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    Taking each one. Google don't market Android builds to consumers but device integrators, which is why you may never heard of it. Android is open source, device drivers are not. The WAN through TCP/IP auto configure has been standard for a few decades. When you connect any device to a LAN, do you really expect to have to setup a WAN (internet) connection separately? Most people don't post about everything they see. But unless you notice your TV has connected to the internet, how would you know? I've never seen an smart TV with an internet connectivity icon.

    It's easy to test yourself, don't take my word for it. :nope:
     
  10. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    Not just me. No one. Ever. On the entire internet as Google knows it.

    Yes, but the OS interfaces to those drivers are not closed-source. There would have to be some reference to this functionality *somewhere* in the source.

    You can't just plug an ethernet cable into a laptop and have that laptop's internet connection be shared. You have to enable internet connection sharing, so the PC can create a network (where it acts as the router) for device(s) connected to that port and then act as a bridge between the two networks. This would have to work similarly and would be nothing like just plugging an ethernet cable into a routed network.

    So your belief is that across the entire internet over the last number of years while this functionality has existed in multiple products, no one but you ever noticed it and/or thought it was interesting enough to post about?
     
    #130 mrcorbo, Jun 7, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
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  11. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    This is acutally how network connections have worked for decades or more. When was the last time you connected to a LAN you were prompted to approve the WAN (internet) connection? This doesn't happen on any mobile device like Android or iOS. Or PS4 or Xbox. When you connect to a LAN, the WAN that LAN is connected to is provided gratis assuming DHCP is enabled, which it always is. Welcome to modern discoverable networking.

    Why? it's in the HDMI 1.4 specification, it's what it's supposed to do.

    Internet connection sharing is Windows terminology for hosting DHCP server. HDMI 1.4 doesn't require this, which is kind of the point as its supposed to be plug and play between devices. An internet connection is not required to inject malicious code over ethernet.

    Why is this interesting? It's what HDMI 1.4 devices were supposed to do and there was plenty of coverage at the time. It was why ethernet channels were embedded into HDMI in the first place. Just because you didn't know about this, does not make this some weird conspiracy.
     
  12. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    I did know that ethernet functionality has been part of the spec since 1.4. I even mentioned that the functionality is specifically called out in cables. I do not believe that any manufacturer has ever enabled it in a device. The reason that I do not believe any manufacturer has ever enabled this functionality is that your posts here are the only indication anywhere that one ever has (never mind that several would have had to enable it for the functionality you describe to work). So I believe that you are mistaken and will continue to believe so until given a good reason to believe otherwise.

    And as for your "It's in the Spec!!!1111" argument. From the HDMI 1.4 FAQ:

     
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  13. wco81

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    Wait, when you plug an HDMI from your laptop to your TV, that's an HDMI input port on your TV.

    You're saying the TV can send and pull IP packets through that HDMI input port?
     
  14. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    Since HDMI 1.4 includes called "HDMI Ethernet Channel functionality". Both devices need to support the standard but the implementation allows the device with the internet connect to create a bridge between the HDMI network traffic and the WAN. If both devices do not support it, it's not going to work because can't force the other device to process networking traffic.

    Actually let me clarify, you can inject ethernet packets into a HDMI stream and pull them out before they reach the intended host device. Teledyne sell packet analysers (LeCroy 980s) that let you extract that networking data and output it through a standard RJ45 port. This is intended for product developers though, not consumers.
     
  15. wco81

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    Hmm, I didn't realize HDMI inputs on a TV (in this case a 9-10 year old plasma) was capable of 2-way data.

    But even if it was, wouldn't the OS on the laptop have to support connecting the HDMI port to the Internet?

    My MacBook Pro will let me share an ethernet Internet connection through the Wifi interface with other devices. I'm not even sure the reverse is possible, to bridge a Wifi Internet connection to the ethernet interface. At least the OS X UI doesn't let you.
     
  16. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    Your TV may predate the standard.

    Maybe. It would depend on the OS, the port controller and driver. The specification requires a bridge to WAN which can be done in a few ways but whichever part of the system is responsibile for the HDMI bus. That will depend also on your chipset and the driver. The barrier to HDMI networking is that traditionally the I/O is on the video side of things, not networking. But with so many multifunction controller chips this is likely to change.

    It's possible. I often have to use an iPhone with 4G for internet, connect that wirelessly to a Mac, which then acts as wireless access point as well as sharing the connection over ethernet for another piece of equipment.

    Most OS's networking has a concept of LAN and WAN (internet). Most OS do not care about the physical or wireless connection type. When something new connects, the OS/port/firmware will identify what it is and if it included TCP/IP networking it ties into the stack unless firewall rules prohibit it. 20 years back you would be configuring IP addresses for individual items on the network and defining protocol parameters. Network setup is mostly automatic these days with just a big 'internet sharing' switch which is really a DHCP server switch.
     
  17. dobwal

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    Well went with the KS8500. I went for the 65" and 20ms input latency. While the KS has some obvious flaws (edge lit), it definitely a major step up from the 2016 Visio Eseries.

    Dropped in the Division as it's a game I play regularly. It's not like the TV adds graphics but my eyes have seen the glory. I didn't realize that going from a very mediocre TV to a well rated TV could be rather noticeable.

    Also, the KS series come with anti virus and anti spyware software.

    Don't know how effective it is but it's there.
     
    #137 dobwal, Jun 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
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  18. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    It's sad that measures like this are necessary on TVs. :-(
     
  19. wco81

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    Thing is Samsung has been accused of the spyware -- it reportedly monitors you and some of their TVs have microphones which have been found to be active even when the TV wasn't on.

    All done to serve up targeted ads apparently.
     
  20. turkey

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    Was there not an NSA leak of viruses for smart TVs that did just that (minus the ads unless Trump is a brazen as he seems unlikeable)
     
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