Batman: Arkham Asylum Demo and its amazing Nvidia ONLY MSAA technology!

To use detrimental when the 4890 really offers superior performance with no AA is kinda odd and may be some confusion there.

http://www.elitebastards.com/index....&catid=14:game-reviews&Itemid=27&limitstart=3

Will try to find more. Realize with AA -- this hit would be different because of the different methods of in-game AA and forced AA.

 

Please stop quoting me as saying something I haven't. I already said that this is not the norm and, at present, is an isolated incident. I only hope that, in the future, we will continue to refer to it as an isolated incident and not the beginning of a new standard business practice.

What I am trying to understand is the reason you keep saying that ATi is partially to blame in the lockout of their own cards.

And as Bouncing Zabaglione Bros. said:

 

http://translate.google.ca/translat...-batman-aa-att.htm&sl=fr&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

 

imho,

Glad that we can agree with that and the first step. The reason seems clear that nVidia did the work themselves and created the work around in this "not the norm and isolated incident" because of the nature of the DirectX 9 -- AA - Unreal Engine aspects for this specific title. nVidia has to guarantee and be responsible for the work they do and felt the need to protect and support their work - hence the lock out. One doesn't have to agree with their methods but this may be the logic behind it. Another is leverage, since they did the work and support it -- if ATI complained, well, they can do the same identical work as we did if they choose -- and here we are.

For me personally, don't condone these leverage actions but who the hell am I ? Nobody and means nothing. Personally would like to see nVidia bend on this issue if AMD supports or take their word on support for their customer base. I'm all for it.

However, the bitching doesn't help and airing out dirty laundry for emotional responses on the Internet creates division for both parties and the side mentality.

Maybe it was AMD's last straw and had enough or maybe it is away to try to offer negative awareness to nVidia on one of their selling points. The nVidia doesn't care about gamers -- was a bit silly to me.

 

Hi Dave,

Maybe I am missing something in translation but are those performance numbers with x4 AA?

 

Fixed that for you

 

My french is not great (well, non-esistant), but given "...un filtrage de type 4x..." I'm assuming so!

 

I believe he was after numbers without AA, to compare between vendors and AMD's claim of performance drops without AA.

 

Let's accept the premise that ATI cards does some unnecessary legwork due to the Nvidia engineered AA implementation. Now, does Nvidia cards not do the same unnecessary work or does this work impact ATI cards to a greater degree? If yes, let's talk nefarious purposes; else it's just bad code.

 

Both cards do the work, but only the Nvidia card benefits with AA. ATI's cards do the work but don't get the benefits of improved visuals. It's just another way for Nvidia to trip the opposition with dodgy coding.

 

You say that but the performance without AA, well, the 4890 offered a lot more performance -- and a lot more performance. Where are you getting this detrimental from -- a quote?

Don't you think it may be prudent to see benches or performance numbers? Or you simply believe a quote on the surface and that's it?

 

That was a tounge and cheek way of me saying they don't have the money to do those sorts of things, but as evidence I didn't hear about any code being supplied to any developers when I was working in the mobile marketing department. Not that taht means much, very possible that it happened without my knowing, the mobile section is somewhat seperated from the desktop guys.

 

It's based on the "spill the beans article". Have you actually read it?

 

8xAA w/ vendor hack 61FPS
8xAA forced in CCC 53FPS
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=28870194&postcount=103

 

Yeah, and find it odd considering ATI offers more performance and you're still using detrimental strongly.

 

It's the principle of it. Nvidia won't let Eidos remove the vendor-id lock on what is a standard bit of code, but they still ensure that ATI cards have to do AA work and lock out any ATI card from showing the AA.

You think we should thank Nvidia for still being slower despite doing that? How about people who only have lesser cards, where it makes a significant difference to playable framerates?

It's the same old cheating crap we've been seeing from Nvidia for years, and I'm quite frankly sick of it.

 

Well, that sucks, but that's also not what I meant. If Nvidia takes the same (or greater) penalty for that writing those useless depth values when running 'apples to apples' (i.e. without any AA), then there is no ploy to deliberately slow down ATI hardware. At worst that particular fact is "amusing". Bad code. Period.

Putting that vendor lock in the in the first place (and/or claiming copyright to in an attempt to fragment the market to the detriment of gamers everywhere) is just bad form to begin with, I'm not arguing that.

Just this: Never attribute to malice what could just as easily be attributed to stupidity.

 

So hang on - Nvidia write code, take the trouble of locking ATI cards out of it, but don't lock the whole thing, just the part that produces results, not the part that does the work?

I don't think so. Let's look at past performance from Nvidia, and then attribute the problem to malice, as that's so often been the case when dealing with Nvidia.

There's no point giving Nvidia the benefit of the doubt, as they've too often been found to be unworthy of it.

 

I think it is great that end-users can use AA in DirectX 9 -- Unreal, here, because there were many times many end-users couldn't. Let's not forget that important point. It's good to see nVidia and ATI both try here to improve the experiences for their customer base.

Hopefully, there may be some agreement or something that can solve this dispute. No, I don't like leverage at times and loathe it. Didn't like seeing it here or seeing nVidia PhysX GPU's being locked out with ATI GPU's --- try to understand but still bothered by it. I'd like to see nVidia bend a bit as I would like to see ATI be more pro-active.

They both can improve and be better to me for gamers as a whole.

 

That is why I posted what I did ages ago. The claim does not even make sense the way it was presented originally.