Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[Picao84]

https://www.ladbible.com/technology...oper-in-new-image-20200115?source=gamingbible

Hmm, Santa Monica teasing something (website speculates God of War). Could this be Legendz?

 

[HBRU]

So what if Lockhart is just a new variant of Xbox One X, and it won't run the Series X exclusives when they start to release? Is it possibly smaller and cheaper to manufacture than a One X, allowing cheaper prices and continued sales? Sony always had good success selling slimmed down variants of the old gen for low prices to target budget gamers. They could potentially kill off both the Xbox One and Xbox One X. It may seem weird to switch to new architecture for that, but if they want to make sure it gets whatever new operating system that ships on Series X, maybe having the same cpu and gpu architecture helps.

edit: got my codnames mixed up

As Sony will keep only ps4pro & ps5 ... Yes I agree

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Lockhart's rumored specs make it seem like it is basically just a "next gen 1X". A cheaper next gen console with just enough gpu grunt to do 1X BC.

I very much doubt Lockhart can do 1X BC if it has a 4 TFLOPs GPU. I've never seen anything remotely suggesting that Navi has 50% higher IPC than Polaris, let alone the fact that emulating something with higher theoretical throughput shouldn't really be possible unless the XBoneX is seriously underutilized (doubtful).

If it's still coming, Lockhart is a new-gen console that plays new-gen titles at 1080p, with decent XBone emulation where it perhaps runs its games in boost mode with increased framerates.



And since this is the baseless rumors thread, nothing like your typical unknown website (probably) trying to get a viewer and patreon increase by throwing off baseless rumors:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1217464654533931011

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1217466386949210118

aaaand.. it comes from pastebin.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1217469273519595520

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

"For sure there is that the GPU has a maximum performance point of 18+ TFLOPS..."

Definitely the kind of precise language that befits an engineer.

 

[Picao84]

They didn't even try

 

[anexanhume]

I very much doubt Lockhart can do 1X BC if it has a 4 TFLOPs GPU. I've never seen anything remotely suggesting that Navi has 50% higher IPC than Polaris, let alone the fact that emulating something with higher theoretical throughput shouldn't really be possible unless the XBoneX is seriously underutilized (doubtful).

If it's still coming, Lockhart is a new-gen console that plays new-gen titles at 1080p, with decent XBone emulation where it perhaps runs its games in boost mode with increased framerates.



And since this is the baseless rumors thread, nothing like your typical unknown website (probably) trying to get a viewer and patreon increase by throwing off baseless rumors:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1217464654533931011

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1217466386949210118

aaaand.. it comes from pastebin.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1217469273519595520

“Sony is testing the APU in their labs for the utmost secrecy and to avoid leaks.

Also I work in a third party lab where we are helping test Sony APUs and they’ve transmitted design information immaterial to thermal testing I am involved in.”

Ok bud!

 

[goonergaz]

Essentially the same tech for both MS and Sony, but for some reason MS version having thermal problems?
Testing limits which just so happen to be the same as PS4 and Pro?
Not letting AMD test it (to minimise leaks) yet let them know the results?

I mean, if I can see it...

 

[VitaminB6]

Essentially the same tech for both MS and Sony, but for some reason MS version having thermal problems?
Testing limits which just so happen to be the same as PS4 and Pro?
Not letting AMD test it (to minimise leaks) yet let them know the results?

I mean, if I can see it...

Looking at the design of the Xbox Series X I find it hard to believe they'd be having thermal issues... It's a big box and considering what MS was able to accomplish with the One X I find it even harder to believe.

 

[goonergaz]

Looking at the design of the Xbox Series X I find it hard to believe they'd be having thermal issues... It's a big box and considering what MS was able to accomplish with the One X I find it even harder to believe.

Box so big because of thermal issues

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Well, no one said this was the thread of the good baseless rumours...

 

[anexanhume]

Well, no one said this was the thread of the good baseless rumours...

We’ve reached a saturation point where legitimate specs likely larger coincide with fake specs so we’re at the mercy of a substantial leak or official unveiling. This is why journalists get paid to chase down stories.

 

[mpg1]

I'm dubious of anonymous leaks that are not just raw data/details of specs. Whenever you get mostly explanation or story it's probably BS.

 

[Jay]

I very much doubt Lockhart can do 1X BC if it has a 4 TFLOPs GPU. I've never seen anything remotely suggesting that Navi has 50% higher IPC than Polaris, let alone the fact that emulating something with higher theoretical throughput shouldn't really be possible unless the XBoneX is seriously underutilized (doubtful).

Not emulating 1X, running it in that profile.
You wouldn't say 1X is emulating a XO.

I don't remember the efficiency gains that RDNA has been shown to have but DF also did a vid showing that its pretty decent.
I expect that MS has used all those profiling tools that they used when making the 1X to get Lockhart to the correct TF to run in 1X mode.
If it means it needs to be 4.8TF then I'm ok with it and hope that's what they are aiming to do.

We've always heard 4TF, but that always seemed like a figure thrown out there to give broad indication i.e close to 4pro. Anything closer to 5TF should easily do 1X.

 

[HBRU]

I dont belive in the 4 TF rumor... It should be at least as one X ...

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Not emulating 1X, running it in that profile.
You wouldn't say 1X is emulating a XO.

I don't remember the efficiency gains that RDNA has been shown to have but DF also did a vid showing that its pretty decent.
I expect that MS has used all those profiling tools that they used when making the 1X to get Lockhart to the correct TF to run in 1X mode.
If it means it needs to be 4.8TF then I'm ok with it and hope that's what they are aiming to do.

We've always heard 4TF, but that always seemed like a figure thrown out there to give broad indication i.e close to 4pro. Anything closer to 5TF should easily do 1X.

If it's running the same code, then it's impossible because the shader throughput doesn't match.
If you're using a different architecture that runs the same code (even if more efficiently), then it's emulating the original console.

In either case, it's impossible AFAICS.
For a 4 TFLOP GPU to emulate a 6 TFLOP GPU, you'd have to assume the 6 TFLOPs GPU is always occupying significantly less than 66% of its shader processors. Which I find it very hard to believe in a console, especially with AAA games.
In the PC it would be possible due to driver overheads and the GPUs having to run non-optimized code, but not in a console.

Unless you're suggesting Lockhart will just try to run XBoneX code but slower, in which case you might be looking at a bunch of games that will now run consistently at sub-30 FPS, which is a very bad idea.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

So, if XB games are cross gen, when a game comes for XBSX, it also comes in an XB1X flavour, so we'll have both Lockhart and XB1X running similarly but differently in the case of Lockhart being Anaconda architecture. Potentially, you could have two consoles of comparable performance where one (X1X) runs the games in simpler visuals (XB1 tech) at a faster framerate, whereas Lockhart runs the game with XBSX features but a lower framerate. You then give consumers a choice of four devices where two are the same but different. Low end, mid end type A, mid end type B, high end. That's a really weird and awkward line-up.

Perhaps as such,. Lockhart isn't joining Anaconda at launch? Just XBSX to begin with, then a low-end model to replace the last-gen devices at an entry level price-point when they are phased out in 2021/2022?

 

[anexanhume]

I dont belive in the 4 TF rumor... It should be at least as one X ...

I would argue that the TF of Lockhart is the most consistent spec of this entire rumor cycle.

It’s not as exciting of a product, so people are less incentivized to invent bullshit numbers for it, IMO.

 

[disco_]

Looking at the design of the Xbox Series X I find it hard to believe they'd be having thermal issues... It's a big box and considering what MS was able to accomplish with the One X I find it even harder to believe.

Box is just big enough to fit a 140mm fan. If it's at the top and blowing hot air to the top, I'm expecting a fairly dusty system. Negative pressure will have dust trying to get through every nook and cranny. If it's on the bottom, that shouldn't be an issue.
The mobo looks to be vertical and mounted in the middle meaning both sides of pcb will have components, probably.
That's making it a bit hard for me to imagine what cooling they'll use. Heat plate on the APU with pipes leading up to a remote condenser? But that wouldn't allow the fan to blow across the condenser. Would that mean the fan is on the bottom, of the case, horizontally, with the VC above it, vertically. Fan blowing through the VC pushing air out the top?

What they did in the One X wasn't that impressive. PRO is considered to have piss poor cooling by many, yet all they did in the latest revision is lower fan speed to make it almost as quiet as the onex. It also made it several degrees warmer, on par with the one x.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I would argue that the TF of Lockhart is the most consistent spec of this entire rumor cycle.

It’s not as exciting of a product, so people are less incentivized to invent bullshit numbers for it, IMO.

Most of the people just don't care about it. The people in the forums aren't in the target market.

To me it would seem odd to launch a product that is outperformed by something from the previous generation unless it comes at an extreme price savings. Either the 4TF lockhart is quite cheap ($249 or less), outperforms the 1x at that 4TF or it's more like 6TF.

 

[Jay]

In either case, it's impossible AFAICS.
For a 4 TFLOP GPU to emulate a 6 TFLOP GPU, you'd have to assume the 6 TFLOPs GPU is always occupying significantly less than 66% of its shader processors. Which I find it very hard to believe in a console, especially with AAA games.

RDNA is a lot more efficient and it wouldn't surprise me if MS tweeks it to be more so when running XO games.

I would argue that the TF of Lockhart is the most consistent spec of this entire rumor cycle.

It’s not as exciting of a product, so people are less incentivized to invent bullshit numbers for it, IMO.

But when it came out, the number thrown out was 4, not because they knew the actual figure but because it was like the 4pro.
Since then, everyone has just used the 4 figure.
Am I saying I think it's 6, no. Just saying that I think it will be whatever is required to run in 1X mode. Unlike others I don't care if the TF number is less than 6.

If a cross gen game has no next gen code paths, it just runs like 1X. Xsx I think will run unpatched games better, bit like 1X. Maybe force better AA, and maybe twice the resolution and down sample even if it's to 4K. That would be nice but may not be likely... Xsx will be able run every graphic setting option that lots of games have maxed out though.

When there is next gen patch, then Lockhart would run that. At lower than xsx res.
1X will be similar res as Lockhart but won't look as good due to the game actually making use of the RDNA features like VRS, RT etc. Resolution may even be slightly worse than 1X but graphically will look better, and when you also factor in SSD, assets, difference CPU makes etc will feel like different experience to 1X.