[B3D Interview]Q&A with Evolution Studios' technical director Scott Kirkland

[Farid]

http://www.beyond3d.com/content/interviews/38/1

Considered to be the most physics-intensive title to date for the Playstation 3 - and by many people to be the most beautiful as well - Motorstorm crashed onto the gaming scene a showcase title for how recent industry trends towards enhanced physics modeling have contributed in a fundamental manner towards improving the gameplay experience. Not being a trend limited to the PS3 (several recent PC and XBox 360 games of note pursue a physics-heavy framework as well), the recent efforts of developers and middleware providers to port physics operations onto the SPEs nevertheless set Motorstorm up to serve as a brief snapshot for how developers are coming along in mastering the Cell architecture. Motorstorm itself features up to twelve detailed vehicle models onscreen at once, each vehicle made up of dozens of independent components with associated physical properties, racing on physically differentiated (and at times deformable) terrain, ultimately resulting in truly spectacular crashes.

When given the chance recently to present technical director of Evolution Studios Scott Kirkland with some questions, we took the opportunity to ask about the development of Motorstorm and where he sees future development efforts on the Playstation 3 as heading.

...

Carl went ahead and bugged Evolution studios about their technology. The outcome is a short and somewhat interesting interview. We would have all preferred if Kirkland would have been more chatty, but we still get some interesting info about the engine and Evostudio creation pipeline in the end, so it's all good.

 

[Carl B]

Kirkland - unfortunately - just seemed either unused (or apathetic) to answering questions that go beyond the regular gaming site norm I guess. These answers here are not even the originals; I had to send those back due to their overly brief nature. But I think he did finally catch on to the fact that those that would be reading his answers would actually understand what he was saying, and that this wasn't 1Up or anything.

That said, so much time was spent in simply establishing a structure and framework for the answers, that the majority of what I had wanted to ask ultimately had to be abandoned in the face of time constraints on his end. But, oh well... at least there was some worthwhile information gleaned about Evo's own take on future development for the console, and info into what their present efforts reflect in terms of hardware utilization.

 

[Tap In]

well done XBD.... thanks!

 

[slider]

Hopefully the next time he/Evolution come across B3D they'll be a little more forthcoming.

 

[ninzel]

I love the game for the most part. After plugging away for a couple months, taking one challenge at a time I've managed to get all Golds completed up to ticket 15 but it's getting really frustrating now.
Physics are great,but I wish more devs would spend less time on the new techie stuff and more on the basics like balancing difficulty.
Edit: Very encouraging article,thanks. Motorstorm is such a good game graphically and physics wiseand to think that little of the PS3 is being tapped. I can't wait to see games a few years out.

 

[AntShaw]

Kudos Carl! Thanks for the efforts! If these were the follow up answers, I hate to see the originals!!

One piece I found interesting was the mention of only using 15-20% of the SPUs. With this going on:

Our SPU exploiting systems consist of:

i) Havok physics.
ii) Determination of object visibility.
iii) Concatenation of hierarchies.
iv) Billboard object culling and vertex buffer creation.
v) Updating of particles and vertex buffer creation.
vi) Updating of vehicle dynamics.
vii) Updating of vehicle suspension constraints.
viii) Audio (MultiStream).
ix) Video decoding.

If thats the case, the future looks bright, and we are all going to have to wear some shades!

 

[deepbrown]

Wow great interview guys.

"MotorStorm only uses between 15 and 20 percent of available SPU resource, so we’re aiming to achieve a 5 fold increase in SPU performance, which should allow us to do some awesome stuff!"

This surprised me. For such an amazing looking game...they don't use the spu's that much!

Thus, the future looks bright and in the case of Motorstorm, the future looks orange.

 

[dantruon]

Thus, the future looks bright and in the case of Motorstorm, the future looks orange.

hahaha, i think the future Motorstorm looks E3 2005 trailer.

 

["Nerve-Damage"]

(+rep) Carl

 

[-tkf-]

B3D: Cell's ability to assist RSX in rendering operations has been a topic of much debate and speculation of late. Was Cell used in Motorstorm to perform any lighting, vertex, or other transform work?

Scott Kirkland: We don’t use the Cell’s SPUs in this way at the moment. All of our lighting and transformation work is done in the RSX’s pixel and vertex shaders.

So one of the best looking games on the PS3 uses "20%" of the SPU power and doesn´t turn to them for "tricks" to circumvent the "weak" RSX GPU.

 

[archangelmorph]

So one of the best looking games on the PS3 uses "20%" of the SPU power and doesn´t turn to them for "tricks" to circumvent the "weak" RSX GPU.

And the "weak" RSX is producing better visuals than most games available on all platforms hands down..

Strange that!

 

[Arwin]

Awesome little interview. I almost wish they were all like that. Certainly I hope you'll be able to get more of these in the future!

 

[blakjedi]

And the "weak" RSX is producing better visuals than most games available on all platforms hands down..

Strange that!

I don't particularly find Motorstorm either that impressive visually or fun ... so I have to disagree with this comment... especially if its actually directly related to motorstorm...

Ninja Gaiden looks pretty good... F1 is ok, VF5 needs way better skin shaders but I personally think DOA4 visually is just as impressive... I just dont see any differences in the consoles yet in terms of anything that would cause you to make this statement... However I do think Blast factor could be end up being better than Geometry wars!

Carl Thanks for the interview. You work waaaaaay harder than Scott did.

 

[Carl B]

hahaha, i think the future Motorstorm looks E3 2005 trailer.

I know there's a temptation to extrapolate from this interview in terms of future visuals, but think of it rather as helping to understand exactly what Motorstorm *is* to begin with, and from that point, although predictions of the future may gain better context... they are still predictions all the same.

Like, I don't read his answers and think to myself, "only RSX used + 80% of SPEs left to be utilized = CGI graphics around the corner." Rather, use it simply as an informative baseline. I view it as this:

1) Only RSX used means future visuals will improve, even if it's only RSX used in the future as well.

2) A five-fold increase in the applicability of the SPEs will translate into material gameplay, simulation/modeling, and/or graphics enhancements.

What that will play out as, I don't try to crystalize in my mind.

I don't like to latch onto flags planted in the hypothetical, such as CGI trailers... rather I prefer simply to understand where we are and how we're headed towards the future - not where that future lies per se.

Personally I do find Motorstorm to be technically impressive when compared to its contemporaries. Is it the best? No I wouldn't say that, but I'd say it would earn recognition in any such contest. As such to have such definitive statements on the part of Scott proves quite useful, because since at the minimum we can say that Evo thus far has been on the leading edge as opposed to the trailing edge, their insights into their own future efforts bare merit as potentially reflective of what trends among devs might be going forward that 'get it.'

A year or so from now I hope there will be another such 'snapshot' interview conducted that hopefully will contrast the ways in which things have advanced, whether snags have been hit, and where expectations lie vs today.

I'm a fan of Cell as many know, so a lot of what I pursue in this vein tends to be along that route. BUT... I promise that soon I intend on finding a dev willing/able/worthy of discussing the Xenos in an educated manner. Because I do think there is a lot to be learned there as well. So... I'm going to try and send some love down the 360's way. (I already have my next Cell questions brewing though!)

Awesome little interview. I almost wish they were all like that. Certainly I hope you'll be able to get more of these in the future!

Thanks Arwin (and everyone!), but believe me you're not here looking right in front of you at the questions that never got answered. What can I say other than any and all of us would have liked to see those answers.

 

[-tkf-]

I know there's a temptation to extrapolate from this interview in terms of future visuals, but think of it rather as helping to understand exactly what Motorstorm *is* to begin with, and from that point, although predictions of the future may gain better context... they are still predictions all the same.

Like, I don't read his answers and think to myself, "only RSX used + 80% of SPEs left to be utilized = CGI graphics around the corner." Rather, use it simply as an informative baseline. I view it as this:

If anything i would say that what we have learned is that amazing lookig games doesn´t have to suck out the last bit of a hardware platform and that even small visual extras tends to be more costly in the generation and the results may not always be worth their costs.

Hope that doesn´t sound to crazy...

 

[Nesh]

I don't particularly find Motorstorm either that impressive visually or fun ... so I have to disagree with this comment... especially if its actually directly related to motorstorm...

Ninja Gaiden looks pretty good... F1 is ok, VF5 needs way better skin shaders but I personally think DOA4 visually is just as impressive... I just dont see any differences in the consoles yet in terms of anything that would cause you to make this statement... However I do think Blast factor could be end up being better than Geometry wars!

Carl Thanks for the interview. You work waaaaaay harder than Scott did.

He did say "most" not "all" so its very easy to find exceptions. Also he didnt specifically say that PS3 is superior to any console. He pointed out that despite RSX's supposed limitation the PS3 still does some of the most impressive looking titles. And it does

As for VF5, Ninja Gaiden and Motorstorm unless you are biased or too picky you will always find something "negative" no matter how good these games look.

VF5 better skin shaders or not it is still one of the most impressive titles out there if not the best looking fighter. VF5 has better skin shaders than DOA, better character models than DOA, and much better physics. It can also be reprodiced on 360 easilly but that doesnt make VF5 any less impressive

Motorstorm is also one of the most impressive racing titles, and in addition to the visual quality it also stands out in terms of physics. Its the combination of all technical and artistic aspects of the game that count. Not one or two things lacking or any unsatisfied inflated and illogical expectations.

No matter how good a game looks it is always easy to find something that could have been better. There are always things that could have been better

Its very sad that people seem to grasp on unimportant details and avoid all the other impressive aspects of the game and use these details as arguements that a game is not impressive.

Again these may or may not be perfectly reproduced on a 360. Assuming that the can be perfectly reproduced on a 360 (which is likely) the point is still unchanged. They are still some of the most impressive games released

 

[Butta]

Am I right in assuming that better better usage of SPE's will translate in better:

Physics
Geometry
AI

and not the actual in-game quality of the graphics (i.e. AA, textures, framerate, etc.). Therefore it is illogical to think that things will ever approach the 2005 trailer as the requirements to do so are mostly fill-rate and memory based... both of which SPEs can do nothing to improve.

 

[deepbrown]

Am I right in assuming that better better usage of SPE's will translate in better:

Physics
Geometry
AI

and not the actual in-game quality of the graphics (i.e. AA, textures, framerate, etc.). Therefore is it not illogical to think that things will ever approach the 2005 trailer as the requirements to do so are mostly fill-rate and memory based... both of which SPEs can do nothing to improve.

If you read the interview...SPU's can do quite a bit more than what you have listed. And remember that Motorstorm had to be pegged down for release...

 

[deepbrown]

He did say "most" not "all" so its very easy to find exceptions. Also he didnt specifically say that PS3 is superior to any console. He pointed out that despite RSX's supposed limitation the PS3 still does some of the most impressive looking titles. And it does

As for VF5, Ninja Gaiden and Motorstorm unless you are biased or too picky you will always find something "negative" no matter how good these games look.

VF5 better skin shaders or not it is still one of the most impressive titles out there if not the best looking fighter. VF5 has better skin shaders than DOA, better character models than DOA, and much better physics. It can also be reprodiced on 360 easilly but that doesnt make VF5 any less impressive

Motorstorm is also one of the most impressive racing titles, and in addition to the visual quality it also stands out in terms of physics. Its the combination of all technical and artistic aspects of the game that count. Not one or two things lacking or any unsatisfied inflated and illogical expectations.

No matter how good a game looks it is always easy to find something that could have been better. There are always things that could have been better

Its very sad that people seem to grasp on unimportant details and avoid all the other impressive aspects of the game and use these details as arguements that a game is not impressive.

Again these may or may not be perfectly reproduced on a 360. Assuming that the can be perfectly reproduced on a 360 (which is likely) the point is still unchanged. They are still some of the most impressive games released

Yes! That's the one. It's quite annoying hearing people saying "Oh since it only uses 15% Spu it can easily be done on the 360"...the reply I would give is...yes, so what? We're not talking about the 360, we're talking about this game here and now, on this platform and how it uses the GPU and CPU. Comparisons get old very quickly in my eyes...especially for exclusive games

 

[Butta]

I think that you missed that AI, physics and geometry are three very general areas that encompass many things... the interview was more specific but mentioned nothing outside of the realm of these areas (with the exception of music and video decompression). I guess if I missed anything, it was lighting... and I do not think that will help anything on the fillrate/memory side.