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ATI - massive job cuts?
- Thread starter rwolf
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Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
Legend
For the most part it's all the duplicated marketing/admin/pr, which we've known about from the beginning.
Happened in a Telecoms company I worked for once. After years of buying to get companies with interesting tech and engineers, they'd also gathered the PR/HR/Admin etc from all these companies, and they all duplicated what the buying company already did. They wanted to keep the engineers who were needed to support and improve the tech, but they didn't need all the extra non-core staff who were surplus to requirements.
They usually quoted 3,700 employeees (well, "more than", but presumably less than 3,800) in their press releases.
1,200 would therefore be a cut of 32.4%. . . . I dunno about the rest of you, but I wasn't expecting anything near that kind of percentage.
These aren't official numbers yet tho are they?
1,200 would therefore be a cut of 32.4%. . . . I dunno about the rest of you, but I wasn't expecting anything near that kind of percentage.
These aren't official numbers yet tho are they?
ATI alone had more than 2500 employees (according to their website). The Inq states that 1200 jobs would be cut from ATi next to the 800 from AMD. So if true, they're basically firing half of the ATI staff and that doesn't bode well for the GPU future. But hey, it's the Inq so where's my bucket of salt?
No, CJ. Look at some recent press releases at ww.ati.com in the "About ATI" section. Look at the 8/23 one for X1950 as an example. They typically said "more than 3,700". Now what I didn't do is go back and see how long it has said that. It may have grown signficantly from the last time they updated the boilerplate.
http://ir.ati.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=105421&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=898452&highlight=
Edit: I'm hearing suggestions that employee number in the PR boilerplate is a bit on the low side, actually, tho without comment on the numbers being bandied around as to cuts.
http://ir.ati.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=105421&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=898452&highlight=
Edit: I'm hearing suggestions that employee number in the PR boilerplate is a bit on the low side, actually, tho without comment on the numbers being bandied around as to cuts.
Ah right, I missed that. I just checked the basic about ATI info which still lists 2500. But if you look at the recent Streamcomputing pressrelease it already states 'more than 4,000". I've been looking at some pressreleases and they're not really consistent:
Sep 2006: 4,000+
Aug 2006: 3,700+
Jul 2006: 4,000+
Jun 2006: 3,700+
Nov 2005 - May 2006: 3,400+
October 2005: 3,200+
August 2005: 2,700+
July 2005: 3,000+
Jan - June 2005: 2,700+
So if true, they've gone back to the size that they had in the beginning of last year. But now what will be left are probably mostly hardware engineers and softwaredevelopers.
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Ah, I'd missed the 4000+ ones, but yeah that was the number that was suggested to me as being more realistic. Probably where it came from.
As to why it was going back and forth between 3,700 and 4,000, well that's probably down to human imperfection and which previous template was grabbed to do the next one with.
As to why it was going back and forth between 3,700 and 4,000, well that's probably down to human imperfection and which previous template was grabbed to do the next one with.
Well, it's true that you can find alot to cut, but it still doesn't change the fact that
1) large cuts are disruptive, even if nonessential employees.
2) Cuts that large do not make people feel better since you tend to know people who lost their job. I worked at a company that laid off 95% of its employees in a series of 5 big layoffs during the dot com bust. Each time was heart wrenching as people you knew and worked with and met with everyday disappeared. Engineers are not a secret fraternal society who only make friends with other engineers and don't have meetings with HR, sales, marketing, PR, relations, accounting, etc. I used to play foozball everyday with girls from accounting at my old company who got axed.
3) expanding companies doing really well don't need to "cut" and treat employees like garbage. Making all the HR, PR, middle managers, support personnel, operations, accountants, et all walk the plank instead of being integrated and absorbed slowly tend to give people the impression that the company would have less loyalty and compunction about RIFing them in the future. When companies are doing poorly, the need for cuts are understood. When they are profitable and doing ok, the cuts are tolerated less. Even moreso because during mergers, the lie is often circulated that deep cuts won't be made.
4) there is no guarantee that no engineering was cut. I've been through tons of RIFs in the tech sector, there is usually always some engineering cut. Particularly, if middle management was cut. Do not believe for a second that corporate boards worship engineers and truly recognize the value their human capital has. What usually happens is, middle managers who wish to keep their job are asked to ask to cut N headcount reporting to them. They will try and select the most N junior and most unproductive people to cut, except in cases where they have a rival/enemy.
This can often clear out the "deadwood" and leave the door open for new hiring. On the other hand, due to the way mergers work, the cuts are usually motivated by upcoming quarterly financial statements, so head counts will not be replaced as quickly as desired.
We're bound to here stories about how AMD/ATI truly recognizes the core value of engineers and not a single one was laid off. That's standard PR assurance that the status quo will be maintained and no loss of capability will be affected. I would frankly be highly skeptical.
I haven't heard any news on official business channels of any cuts yet, so I am skeptical of the numbers bandied about. But anything higher than 5% would be large. Technically, anything from 50-500 employees in California is considered a "mass layoff" and WARN laws apply, meaning 60 days notice, fines for back pay if violated, plus the threat of lawsuits, which drives companies to offer generous severance packages with Waiver statements waiving your right to sue if you accept bonus severance money.
For large successful companies, typical workforce rotation occurs through normal attrition/turnover and <2% RIFs. To me, if AMD cut every ATI employee except for the engineers, it would not be a sign of strength, and I would not perceive it as a total win-win. Despite all the dilbert blasting over management, marketing, sales, et al, those people do serve a useful function, and they are *not* as interchangeable as you think. Sales people have relationships with customers that they often take with them when they leave the company, non-compete clause or not (non competes are INVALID in California) It takes time to build new relationships, you just can't hand over the Rolodex and assume everything's peachykeen. Marketing people often develop alot of unique knowledge about their audience that is specific and isn't instantaneously transplantable to some other guy within AMD Marketing. Middle managers, project managers, development managerss, product managers, have relationships with their employees. Sometimes its bad, but sometimes it works real good, and if people have worked together for along time, the manager knows the person's individual needs, foibles/issues, and strengths. Whenever I have worked for a manager I truly respect and had a great relationship with, I DREADED internal reorgs.
Engineers are not the only valuable asset in an organization, in a chess game, you need all your pieces.
I would wait and see if the news is real. According to WARN laws, they would have to give 60 days advanced notice anyway. But if you are someone who assumes the cuts are real and that large, I would not be trying to spin it as a great day in the history of ATI.
1) large cuts are disruptive, even if nonessential employees.
2) Cuts that large do not make people feel better since you tend to know people who lost their job. I worked at a company that laid off 95% of its employees in a series of 5 big layoffs during the dot com bust. Each time was heart wrenching as people you knew and worked with and met with everyday disappeared. Engineers are not a secret fraternal society who only make friends with other engineers and don't have meetings with HR, sales, marketing, PR, relations, accounting, etc. I used to play foozball everyday with girls from accounting at my old company who got axed.
3) expanding companies doing really well don't need to "cut" and treat employees like garbage. Making all the HR, PR, middle managers, support personnel, operations, accountants, et all walk the plank instead of being integrated and absorbed slowly tend to give people the impression that the company would have less loyalty and compunction about RIFing them in the future. When companies are doing poorly, the need for cuts are understood. When they are profitable and doing ok, the cuts are tolerated less. Even moreso because during mergers, the lie is often circulated that deep cuts won't be made.
4) there is no guarantee that no engineering was cut. I've been through tons of RIFs in the tech sector, there is usually always some engineering cut. Particularly, if middle management was cut. Do not believe for a second that corporate boards worship engineers and truly recognize the value their human capital has. What usually happens is, middle managers who wish to keep their job are asked to ask to cut N headcount reporting to them. They will try and select the most N junior and most unproductive people to cut, except in cases where they have a rival/enemy.
This can often clear out the "deadwood" and leave the door open for new hiring. On the other hand, due to the way mergers work, the cuts are usually motivated by upcoming quarterly financial statements, so head counts will not be replaced as quickly as desired.
We're bound to here stories about how AMD/ATI truly recognizes the core value of engineers and not a single one was laid off. That's standard PR assurance that the status quo will be maintained and no loss of capability will be affected. I would frankly be highly skeptical.
I haven't heard any news on official business channels of any cuts yet, so I am skeptical of the numbers bandied about. But anything higher than 5% would be large. Technically, anything from 50-500 employees in California is considered a "mass layoff" and WARN laws apply, meaning 60 days notice, fines for back pay if violated, plus the threat of lawsuits, which drives companies to offer generous severance packages with Waiver statements waiving your right to sue if you accept bonus severance money.
For large successful companies, typical workforce rotation occurs through normal attrition/turnover and <2% RIFs. To me, if AMD cut every ATI employee except for the engineers, it would not be a sign of strength, and I would not perceive it as a total win-win. Despite all the dilbert blasting over management, marketing, sales, et al, those people do serve a useful function, and they are *not* as interchangeable as you think. Sales people have relationships with customers that they often take with them when they leave the company, non-compete clause or not (non competes are INVALID in California) It takes time to build new relationships, you just can't hand over the Rolodex and assume everything's peachykeen. Marketing people often develop alot of unique knowledge about their audience that is specific and isn't instantaneously transplantable to some other guy within AMD Marketing. Middle managers, project managers, development managerss, product managers, have relationships with their employees. Sometimes its bad, but sometimes it works real good, and if people have worked together for along time, the manager knows the person's individual needs, foibles/issues, and strengths. Whenever I have worked for a manager I truly respect and had a great relationship with, I DREADED internal reorgs.
Engineers are not the only valuable asset in an organization, in a chess game, you need all your pieces.
I would wait and see if the news is real. According to WARN laws, they would have to give 60 days advanced notice anyway. But if you are someone who assumes the cuts are real and that large, I would not be trying to spin it as a great day in the history of ATI.
I went back and looked at the announcement day .pdfs.
They say 4,000 for ATI, btw. They also suggest "opperational efficiencies" of $50m/year, across both companies. That's not nearly enough to represent 2,000 (across both companies) job cuts that Inq is suggesting when you load up head count with benefits, taxes, and support costs. That's in Sales, General, and Administration according to the .pdf.
There's another $25M in R&D overlap shown, so that could be some engineers, tho certainly the tone at the time was a growth tone where that effort would be welcome elsewhere within the company.
They say 4,000 for ATI, btw. They also suggest "opperational efficiencies" of $50m/year, across both companies. That's not nearly enough to represent 2,000 (across both companies) job cuts that Inq is suggesting when you load up head count with benefits, taxes, and support costs. That's in Sales, General, and Administration according to the .pdf.
There's another $25M in R&D overlap shown, so that could be some engineers, tho certainly the tone at the time was a growth tone where that effort would be welcome elsewhere within the company.
$50m would only be about 250 employees, given average salaries of ~$80-100k and an overhead ratio of usually about 2:1. 2000 employees, even if they only made $50k (very very low for California/IT sector) would be a savings of almost $200 million.
250 employees would be too small to trigger a WARN, so AMD could lay them off without a 60 day advanced public notice. Just immediate severance package to shut them up, and goodbye.
250 employees would be too small to trigger a WARN, so AMD could lay them off without a 60 day advanced public notice. Just immediate severance package to shut them up, and goodbye.
trumphsiao
Regular
I heard ATI have inventory problem so long ago. I supposed AMD will face down numerous
stockpile of RV5XX and how to find efficient way to sell out without severely price-cut .
lots of my firends have been working for ATI at least 5~10 years. however through their snatch
of comments on this subject. They are unhinged and wanna not to be fired stag .....
stockpile of RV5XX and how to find efficient way to sell out without severely price-cut .
lots of my firends have been working for ATI at least 5~10 years. however through their snatch
of comments on this subject. They are unhinged and wanna not to be fired stag .....
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MulciberXP
Regular
I hope if they're firing PR people it means they plan on hiring BETTER PR people. Why wont AMD make catchy adds like intel to get mindshare???
Okay, so this is off topic, but I'll blame you.
Does anyone besides me find the new Intel Core Duo ads annoying? Have I achieved Old Fartdom?MulciberXP
Regular
Okay, so this is off topic, but I'll blame you.
Oh, actually I cant stand the Core Duo adds. But that doesn't negate the decades of intels better marketting. AMD STILL doesn't have an answer
edit: I'm just trying to say, I hope if they're firing their PR people it's in an attempt to revamp their PR and marketting. Which are both underachievers compaired to intel and nvidia.
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Why does Intel even have TV ads? I'm sure the much more important part of their advertising must come from having the Intel Inside sticker shown at the end of every Dell, HP, Gateway, etc comerical. I swear I've never seen one of those end with an AMD sticker shown.
trumphsiao
Regular
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
Legend
TheInq backtracks. Job cuts not decided, and when they are they will be in the hundreds, not thousands.
Job cuts not decided, and when they are they will be in the hundreds, not thousands.Similar threads
