ATi CEO Interview

[Sabastian]

http://www.area3d.net/thread.php?id=811

"RV350 (0.13m DX9 mainstream) and R350 (0.15m DX9 high-end) will continue ATI's technology leadership. Both parts will "counter attack" Nvidia's GeForceFX launch and will be available next Spring. "

So from what I am reading here the R350 will definitely be something else? Interesting stuff.

EDIT: I guess the R350 is still the R300 core at .15um but there is something different they arn't saying just what that is. What is the most likely scenerio for bumping up R300 core to nv30 level anyhow?

 

[demalion]

I don't get why people are still thinking the R350 is a speed-bumped R300 core.

Increment in number means a change in design. With the process size being the same, some other aspect of the design definitely changed.

More interesting, to my mind, from the interview:

Q: How does the ATi one generation of chip development progress, the very many people cares about RV350 and the R350 some specifications and the estimate issue time?

A: Our RV350 will use 0.13 microns technology, but R350 we as before will use 0.15 microns specification produce. RV350 was makes the very big improvement in the R300 foundation, we had to improve performance and function, simultaneously also had to reduce cost (is equal to was re- designs one), moreover RV350 in this year spring Ready, also will start to the time 0.13 craft maturely. Our RV350 sample already bought back, I personally thought RV350 was becomes the DX9.0 application the mainstream the first section product.

Now, I was only expecting the RV350 to be a R300 9500 Pro type design on 0.13 micron, possibly higher clocked to boot, but that talk about improvement in performance and function is a bit exciting. Though, since this is apparently a translation, there is ample room for some misinterpretation.

 

[Sabastian]

I don't get why people are still thinking the R350 is a speed-bumped R300 core.

Yeah but the translation here is difficult.... it looks as though the R350 is the R300 core with some design enhancements a la Geforce 3-4 in a way. But it makes little difference to me performance is what counts…

R350 is the high performance and the high specification product, but we as before use 0.15 microns specification production, because R350 only is the R300 one improvement product, certainly does not transit like R200 to R300 such is the new generation of product (this explanation certainly is not very definite, according to PCPOP news which obtains from other channels, ATi completed 0.13 and 0.15 both kinds of preparation in R350 this specification!)

 

[overclocked]

Well two things you can get out is that the value part RV350 is on 0,13 and that the performance part R350 vill use 0,15.
I think this is very interesting and indeed a proof that ATI isn´t as limited that many would want to think regarding the 0,15micron tech versus Nvidias 0,13.

When the 9700 arrived i don´t think many was so impressed as they are today about it. Self i was just waiting for Nvidia to drop a bomb a couple weeks after because it has been so before.
ATI really has made a great jobb and i hope that all this is going to be a gain for us in price/performance from both companies in the future as well as now.

btw, thanks for the link.

 

[MuFu]

The fact that the RV350 is 0.13u and the R350 is 0.15u has been known for some time.

What I'd like to know is when they plan on moving completely to board-only. They'll lose their current cost advantage and things should get pretty interesting - especially since NV31 is being slightly overlooked at this time, IMO.

MuFu.

 

[Sabastian]

The fact that the RV350 is 0.13u and the R350 is 0.15u has been known for some time.

While it has been rumored heavily its nice to hear ATIs CEO say it if you know what I am saying.

 

[MuFu]

Yes, sorry. I can only speak for myself.

(damn this winking!)

MuFu.

 

[Doomtrooper]

Here is a good one for ya Mufu...

<-----

 

[MuFu]

Ta.

 

[megadrive0088]

as long as R350 is as beefed up over R300 as the NV25 was over NV20, that is all anyone could hope for. that means MORE than just a simple core/memory speed increase. it means a changed core. obviously not a completely new core as R400 would be the completely new one, but an inbetween core. A refresh. more than just GF3 to GF3 Ti500.

 

[T2k]

Where r u, HellCE?

Good to hear one of my prediction was right... (r350: 150 nanometer)

Edit: Damn, couldn't find... I think I wrote it somewhere else...

 

[Fuz]

I think whats interesting is the fact that ATI have working samples of the RV350 (.13) already. It seems ATI didn't have the same headaches Nvidia did with the transition to .13, which alot of ppl thought ATI would face.

Also, when is "Next spring" anyway? What could be the last possible date to make a spring release?

 

[Natoma]

Fuz:

Remember that TSMC has two .13Micron processes. The better process, i.e. the one Nvidia went for first, was designed to allow lower voltages and give off less heat. Nvidia probably needed the more advanced process so they could ship the card with a normal cooling solution.

When they couldn't get that working right, Nvidia had to go with the lesser .13 design, along with that mammoth slot-stealing, dust collecting behemoth. That, as we now know, caused the delay in getting NV30 out the door.

Considering ATI's abilities to get low power/low transistor designs out the door, I'm sure they were probably able to use the lesser .13 design as the first option, without issue. Thus, no time was wasted trying to get the better, but flawed .13 design working.

Again, an instance where ATI's experience starting in the low power/high performance laptop world probably helped them.

The better .13 design will no doubt be ready for R400/NV35 next summer/fall.

This is all speculation, but considering the circumstances, most likely true.

 

[Mr.huang]

what i am care is when ATI unveil the next generation product like R350, is there anything possible we can see lower-clock R350 or scaled down version R350 just only base on R350 one core again?
because by end of this year i want to buy R9500 Pro, if the thing is possible , i would wait a few months and buy a newer feature and effiency-enhance one such as R9500Pro-like.

 

[megadrive0088]

R350 = refresh
R400 = next generation

 

[Sabastian]

I think whats interesting is the fact that ATI have working samples of the RV350 (.13) already. It seems ATI didn't have the same headaches Nvidia did with the transition to .13, which alot of ppl thought ATI would face.

Also, when is "Next spring" anyway? What could be the last possible date to make a spring release?

We know they are out there.. So now we just wait. I am wondering just what it is exactly they have done to the core to give it the performance increase. I wonder if ATi will hype the R350 + RV350 as much as nvidia has the NV30? ..... na I doubt it. But at least we would get some insights into its performance. Looks like we will have to actually wait for the launch in the same way we did for Radeon 9700.

 

[antlers]

what i am care is when ATI unveil the next generation product like R350, is there anything possible we can see lower-clock R350 or scaled down version R350 just only base on R350 one core again?
because by end of this year i want to buy R9500 Pro, if the thing is possible , i would wait a few months and buy a newer feature and effiency-enhance one such as R9500Pro-like.

I imagine the RV350 (the laptop DX9) will appear in a R9500Pro like configuration for desktops, but maybe not for a while.

 

[Fuz]

Remember that TSMC has two .13Micron processes. .

I didn't know they had two, where did you read this? Link?

I am wondering just what it is exactly they have done to the core to give it the performance increase.

I think we would all love to know what they have done to the core. As long they improve perfomance, in particular AA performance (not that its bad at this moment), I am happy.

I imagine the RV350 (the laptop DX9) will appear in a R9500Pro like configuration for desktops, but maybe not for a while.

The RV350 is for desktops only, the M10 will be the DX9 notebook chip.

 

[MuFu]

Remember that TSMC has two .13Micron processes. .

I didn't know they had two, where did you read this? Link?

I think he is referring to the Low-K process (?).

The RV350 is for desktops only, the M10 will be the DX9 notebook chip.

The RV350 IS essentially the M10.

MuFu.

 

[Natoma]

Remember that TSMC has two .13Micron processes. .

I didn't know they had two, where did you read this? Link?

Unfortunately I do not have a link. I read about that information on these forums and committed it to "common" knowledge. The information came out around Comdex after a conference call from Huang regarding the NV30 delay.

TSMC apparently has two 0.13 Micron processes. The more advanced process was the one Nvidia went with first, because it would have allowed their design to run cooler, and it would have required normal cooling. When they couldn't get that working right (mainly because TSMC was still working out the bugs), they went with the less advanced 0.13 process, which is why the NV30 runs so hot.

So I speculated that ATI probably saw no need to go with the more advanced process from the start, because of their experience with low power/low heat parts. So they saved themselves that pain and headache that Nvidia went through.