ATI Announces Mobility Radeon 9700

Discussion in 'Beyond3D News' started by Dave Baumann, Feb 3, 2004.

  1. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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    [​IMG]Today ATI announces Mobility Radeon 9700, their latest product designed for laptop and mobile solutions. Although the "9700" moniker suggests something similar to the desktop Radeon 9700, this is in-fact the mobile equivalent of Radeon 9600 XT – Mobility Radeon 9700’s M11 chip is the same chip as Radeon 9600 XT’s RV360 meaning that it has 4 pixel pipelines and a 128-bit memory bus, and with the DirectX9 capabilities of 9600.

    Being based on the RV360, M11 utilises TSMC’s 130nm low-k process, which allows notebook vendors to supply graphics with the same power requirements as Mobility Radeon 9600 but at a higher performance or at the same performance with lower power requirements. The maximum suggested core speed of Mobility Radeon 9700 is 450MHz, and has been demonstrated at such speed in a "white box" mobile gaming machine yielding a 3DMark03 score in the mid 3000’s. While ATI can have control over the process used for the core they don’t have any say on the RAM available on the time, hence the memory range is expected to be similar to Mobility Radeon 9600’s with DDR speeds of 200MHz (400MHz effective) to 260MHz (520MHZ) dependant on the design and its heat and power requirements.

    [​IMG]As with the desktop XT parts and the Mobility 9600’s, Mobility Radeon 9700 will also have the capability of Overdrive, thanks to its on chip thermal diode, however this will be up to the notebook vendor to qualify and implement hence it still take time to make it to market, if at all. Mobility Radeon 9700 has the same driver functionality established from ATI’s Catalyst 3.8 drivers with features such as SmartShader and VPU recover. As with the ATI’s other recent products Mobility Radeon 9700 also features full HDTV support with YPrPb connector available from ATI for full resolution playback on HDTV displays.

    ATI expects Mobility Radeon 9700 powered solutions to be shipping soon, and indeed a few configurations have already been spotted.
     
  2. Joe DeFuria

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    Sigh.

    I guess we shouldn't complain about the best notebook graphics solution on the market, but I was hoping for a bit more. Oh well.

    Bring on CeBit and the R420/NV40 war. ;)
     
  3. AlphaWolf

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    Looks like something didnt get pasted.
     
  4. Bjorn

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    I wonder why they simply didn't name it 9600 XT mobility. Especially since it performs very closely to the desktop 9600 XT. But i guess that that would have made it to easy for the customers.
     
  5. demalion

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    That probably would make it more confusing, I'd think. The Mobility arena was better of without the "9600" and "9600 Pro", and "XT" would just have made it worse....the convergence in graphics power of mobile graphics solutions isn't at the point where it should map that closely to the wide variations in the desktop space, and won't be, I don't think, until the graphics card is a widely plug-in upgradable component. The desktop would be better of without it too, if it were actually feasible.

    As far as the problem with the name besides that, I don't consider the pipeline count a significant issue because I don't think it is likely an 8 pipe part within the same power requirements would inherently have offered better performance (i.e., what clock speeed would an R300 core have to run at to use the same power, and was it design with the power saving featureset in mind?), and the differentiation between those numberings seems suitably and accurately isolated to that metric (the products already associated with the 9600 and 9700 on the desktop have the same featureset otherwise, at least as exposed to the consumer).

    It is indeed as misleading as other mobile GPU names that use the same name as a desktop part, but offer significantly less performance, it is just that that is a fairly universal reality of mobile graphics :-?, and one not at all concealed as far as I know :?:
     
  6. Bjorn

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    I don't buy that. The customers already knows (hopefully) what the XT is when it comes to desktop products. And since that's exactly what the R9700 Mobility is, how could that be more confusing then renaming it to a 9700 ?
     
  7. epicstruggle

    epicstruggle Passenger on Serenity
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    Since when does marketing ever make sense. Im sure whoever suggested going with mobility 9700 over 9600xt got a nice fat bonus. ;)

    Anychances of b3d reviewing a laptop with one of these?

    later,
    epic
     
  8. demalion

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    Because I proposed they are distinct markets for the graphics products offered:

    "...the convergence in graphics power of mobile graphics solutions isn't at the point where it should map that closely to the wide variations in the desktop space, and won't be, I don't think, until the graphics card is a widely plug-in upgradable component. The desktop would be better of without it too, if it were actually feasible."

    Consider, along with the point of this completion of the sentence/paragraph, the idea of there being prospective laptop customers that: don't keep track of the latest suffixes in their spare time, and that they make up a significant portion of customers who will purchase the product.

    Given that there are plenty of people who go through both the trouble of finding 3d hardware web sites and posting, that crop up asking about the details of card naming in the desktop space, I think this view of the distinction between the two markets does reflect the relative complexity a large selection of customers will face when selecting graphics options in each space, because they will be dealing with the complexity for the first time when they see a "9600" and "9700" listed instead of a "9600" and "9600XT", some time in the near future. You and I, as two examples, just don't happen to be among such customers.

    Note: The rest of the post discusses an outlook of...the problem with the name besides this market distinction and complexity issues, and provides a context for this first paragraph.
     
  9. Joe DeFuria

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    The poroblem with naming it another 9600 variant...is that there is already confusion in the mobile aread with 9600 variants!

    There's all sorts of different speed and memory bus differernces, between standard, "Pro" and now I think there's "Turbo" 9600 variants. I expect ATI to offer the same with the 9700 line eventually.

    This way, we avoid the "9600 Pro Turbo XT". ;)
     
  10. Hanners

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    Not now that nVidia are using the XT moniker for low-end variants of their products, while ATi use it for their high-end variants.

    Welcome to the wonderful World of marketing, where confusion is your best friend. :?
     
  11. Bjorn

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    Don't we have the same problem in the desktop market with SE's, LE's, XT's and god knows what ?

    You might of course say that why not fix this in the mobile market. And that's fine by me. But i'd rather see that they started this with the next generation hardware to avoid comparisions with the desktop counterparts.

    That might be true. But they'd still be fooled in thinking that they get a mobile version of the 9700 which they won't. I'm not saying that the suffix thing is good when in fact it's a nightmare. It's just that i think that renaming it to the same name as a very popular desktop counterpart isn't exactly a better solution.

    Well, for Ati i might be but not for the customers.
     
  12. Bjorn

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    And it's of course much better that they think that they'd got a mobile version of the 9700 ?
     
  13. Joe DeFuria

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    You are, of course, assuming that notebook shoppers look at the parts based on "desktop counterparts."
     
  14. Joe DeFuria

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    Yes we do. And it's exactly a problem.

    However, there is ALREADY a desktop 9700. There isn't a notebook 9700, and apparently, there never will be. (8 pipeline R3xx based.)

    Yes, I understand. The situation is clearly not ideal. But from a consumer perspective, I'd still rather see Mobility 9700 vs. Mobility 9600, instead of Mobility 9600 vs. Mobility 9600 Pro, Turbo Pro, XT.

    Again, something like the 9650 might have been ideal...but then, there's no desktop part to "compare it to", which seems to be an issue with you. :)
     
  15. Bjorn

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    Well, yes. Especially since they've been following the same naming pattern, up until now that is. And most reviews (at least the ones i read) also have comparisions of the desktop version so why shouldn't they ?

    And i think that that's pretty natual since the desktop versions usually arrives 6+ months or so earlier and by the time the mobile version comes out, everybody know what the desktop version is capable of. I know that that's what i do. F.e, same as .... but 20% slower for the mobile version.

    But i haven't done any market research on this so i have no clue as to what people think about when they buy a laptop.

    Nope :) If you don't have a desktop version to compare it to, then you compare it with the mobile version. And that's fine by me.
     
  16. Joe DeFuria

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    There are of course differt types of buyers. Those who traditionally use desktops and are moving to laptops would more naturally look at desktop counterparts for a reference point to what they're "used to."

    Those who have been buying / using notebooks for years and have abandoned desktops, have little reason to look at desktop counterparts.
     
  17. Bjorn

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    I think they do. Especially because of what i mentioned above (edited version). If you're interested in 3D then you want to know all about the latest and greatest. I mean, the laptops are still a bit off from the performance of the R9700, and that's a hmm, almost 2 year old card now.

    I'd think that most people that buy a laptop with the R9600 M knows about the desktop version. But again, i have no market research to back this up with :)

    Ok, to be fair, most people that i help (god help them) with buying computers don't know shit about what they're buying but they won't be helped no matter what you named the graphics card.
     
  18. Joe DeFuria

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    Agreed. If you're interested in a 3D Laptop, you want, well, the the latest and greatest 3D in a lap-top.

    Whats sounds like the latest and greatest? Radeon 9600 Turbo Pro, 9600 XT, or 9700?

    Heh...talk to the gal sitting right next to me, who has a Mobility 9600 in her lap-top and has no clue. (Of course, she didn't buy it, but someone at my company did.) Meanwhile...,my laptop has some S3 crap in it. :)

    Lol....so true. :D
     
  19. Bjorn

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    Then i'd rather use 9650 as you suggested. And if we don't have to care about comparisions with the desktops, how about R 10000 ?

    Then the customers will be VERY confident that they'd get the latest and greatest :)
     
  20. Anonymous

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    Joe burbled:
    Heh...talk to the gal sitting right next to me, who has a Mobility 9600 in her lap-top and has no clue. (Of course, she didn't buy it, but someone at my company did.) Meanwhile...,my laptop has some S3 crap in it.


    heh, sounds like your IT resource mgr knows his employees well enough not to hand out gaming rigs to gamers ^_~

    as for the naming thing, it's sad... i guess their thinking is that it's their 'top of series' mobility part. but well, it's bound to confuse someone, and surely that's their hope. regardless, it sounds like a nice part, and i'd love to see a b3d review! and nvidia's naming their low-end parts "XT?" that's brilliant. evil brilliance, nvidia-style... 9_9
     
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