Asking Tim Sweeney about NVIDIA and more

Discussion in 'Beyond3D News' started by Reverend, Sep 29, 2003.

  1. Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.

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    It's not the conspiracies I'm worried about, it's the *facts* we know about what Nvidia have said and done to mislead and cheat the public.
     
  2. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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    I'm not even sure this relates to Half Life. Looks at the working of the report:

    Incentive compensation for a development agreement - does that sound like an OEM bundling deal?

    However...

    ATI have just entered into a development agreement with Microsoft and we know Orton had an incentive plan for some large deal. Seems to sounds as though this $6M was actually Orton's pay off for landing the XBox2.
     
  3. BRiT

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    Thank you Dave! I keep trying to inform people that those charges are for the XBOX-2 deal [over at 3DGPU], but people just don't listen. *sigh* People will believe what they want to believe...

    The reality is, the HL-2 charges probably won't be on the books until it actually ships, hence on the next quarterly report. And it certainly will not be put under an 'incentive' column. If anything, it would fall under Marketting budget.
     
  4. WaltC

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    You write this:

    And then this...

    So, I gather you think conspiracy theories about nVidia are improper, but those which involve ATi are A-OK?
     
  5. Fred da Roza

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    I've been told something similar by our pilots. When replicating IR and NVG enviroments using R300 chips, they don’t notice any banding. And the human eye can distinguish more shades of green than any other color.
     
  6. Anonymous

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  7. Anonymous

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    Yep, it officially a bug (bug tracking number and all) and will presumebly be fixed in the next update. Which should be quite quick, due to some major bugs the Summer update introduced...
     
  8. DeanoC

    DeanoC Trust me, I'm a renderer person!
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    ^^^^^^^^^^ me forgetting to login
     
  9. nggalai

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    But please mark the bold disclaimer on the top and on the bottom of all pages of said review. ;)

    In short: Don't take too much heed of the benchmarks. Leo will change the article and also publish a follow-up, soon. There's something he overlooked.

    93,
    -Sascha.rb
     
  10. Joe DeFuria

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    Bah...don't leave us hanging...what was overlooked? ;)
     
  11. nggalai

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    Sorry, I'd rather wait for confirmation, first. But so far it looks as if the conclusion of said article, i.e. "with application controlled enabled, no texture filtering issues" is completely and utterly wrong, but in a different way than what Leo was looking for when doing the testing. He expected that 52.1x drivers exhibit 51.75's "no more than 2°AF on texture stages >0" behaviour, and when he found that this wasn't the case with "application controlled" enabled, he overlooked far more severe issues. And they don't seem like bugs either, more like design decisions, IMO.

    93,
    -Sascha.rb
     
  12. Joe DeFuria

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    Thanks for the heads up.

    Anand is supposed to "shortly" have his image quality analysis comparison with the det 52's (part II of his Readeon 9800 XT vs. NV38 article.)

    If your preliminary results are in fact confirmed, it'll be interesting to see if Anand catches them.
     
  13. [3dc]Leonidas

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    First, the old UT2003 optimizations from 44/45.xx drivers is now for all D3D games in Control Panel mode (pseudo-trilinear filtering and max 2x anisotropic filter on texture stages 1-7).
    Second, a nice pseudo-trilinear filter instead a regular trilinear filter on all texture stages in all cases (application mode, Control panel mode, whatever).

    Corrected with the new article:
    http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/detonator_52.14/
    We work on an english translation, but the screenshots tell you the whole story.

    Update
    English translation is ready:
    http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/detonator_52.14/index_e.php
     
  14. KimB

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    Okay. If you're going to be talking about distinguishing between different shades of color, then FP24 is not the number you should be looking at.

    Of much more importance is the output buffer, which is always going to be 8-bit. The R300 will show limited banding, though no more than any other consumer card (well, more banding than the Parhelia, but that card isn't very advanced).

    The reasons to use higher-precision floating-point have nothing to do with color data. Modern pixel shaders can calculate much more than just color data. The decision to use FP24 in the R3xx core was, in fact, related to texture coordinate addressing.

    For example, unless you have a very long shader where errors accumulate easily in the color processing, nVidia's FP16, when used for color processing, will look every bit as good.
     
  15. Anonymous

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    Every bit? I'd say that FP24 has about 8 bits more than FP16 :D
     
  16. Anonymous

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    It's scary how much nvidia's current situation mirrors the late 3dfx's; there's so many parallels: missed product cycles, new releases being too little, too late, poor performance when you use standard as opposed to proprietary (dx/twimtbp, dx/glide), etc.


     
  17. KimB

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    nVidia isn't going the way of 3dfx. That's pretty certain. They have a very strong business strategy, and a diversified product line. And, most importantly, your analysis doesn't bother to look beyond the surface. There are very large differences in what you are describing from what happened with 3dfx.
     
  18. FatBoy

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    Holy Grail

    I've got to ask, how do you get around the problem. You need to fund work like that independently and I don't think anyone can afford to give up a day job to do it.

    We need a little Ivory Tower of C++ developers who are untouchable. It occurred to me that a body of students specialising in graphics coding might be the answer.
     
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