Any Americans see this video?

[K.I.L.E.R]

Of American soldiers that have been executed(comfirmed) and others who are being interogated for Iraqi TV?
Guys look in horrible condition.

1 women and a few guys.

It's also been said this video is banned in the US, I just want to get rid of the censorship by telling you guys about it. Censorship isn't good, neither is torture.

 

[DemoCoder]

It's not banned, it's just that networks refuse to air it out of respect to the families. It is a rule that the military is the first to notify families. How would you feel if the first news you heard of your child is to see his dead body on TV? Moreover, broadcasting the video just assists Al Jazeera/Iraq in their violation of the Geneva conventions.

They have aired atleast one of the POWs (Hudson) because his mother already knows.

I'm sure some network will eventually air it, but they will take a lot of flak from their audience over it.

There is freedom of the press, and then there is good taste. You will note that after 9/11, no pictures were shown of the shredded human body parts that littered Ground Zero. Why? Was it against the law? No, networks had nothing to gain from grossing out their audience, pissing off the familities, and doing something tasteless.

See alt.binaries.pictures.tasteless on USENET for those. There are some people who like gruesome video, who read medical books to see chopped up humans, but most people would rather read about it, than to see it.


Now many people will say "maybe if people actually see the result of bombs and guns, they will be less in favor of them", and that sterilized casuality reports promote support for war, but I really doubt that is the case, since we got more than our share of this in Korea and Vietnam, but it didn't stop us.

 

[Snyder]

I too have the opinion that close-ups of killed and maimed people shouldn't be shown in tv. (Although, as hard and cynical as that may sound, it adds credibility to the information.)
But: I don't know if it's the same with national CNN, but CNN International had no problems in the past with showing casualties (quite close-up) of conflicts of all sorts.
Hypocrisy all over again, or is there some detail I'm missing? (Except that usually in the reports I mentioned, the casualties weren't US citizens.)

Sorry if this sounds rude, but after years of watching stuff like this on the big international news channels (CNN, BBC, SkyNews etc.) and asking myself "is this really neccessary?" while hardly anyone seemed to mind ("we have the right to this information!"), this sudden concern about piety and tastelessness has me quite irritated.

 

[DemoCoder]

So you don't believe that the news organizations should atleast without the names of the dead and pictures of their faces until the military notifies their familities?

 

[Evildeus]

CBS showed it i think

 

[aras]

What the Iraqi did was wrong, no doubt about it. However, hasn't CNN aired pictures of Iraqi POW's ? I've seen them surrendering and also POW's behind wire fences where you could clearly make out their faces. No ultra close-ups or name mentioning like the iraqi interviews though.

But until someone corrects me with the specifics in the Geneva convention I'll have to assume that both sides (Iraq to a great degree and the coalition to a lesser) have violated the convention.

 

[RussSchultz]

A lot of it has to do with who's shooting and airing the video.

While I agree that neither side should show faces, etc, the Iraqi state controlled media is an obvious arm of the Iraqi government.

 

[pascal]

What the Iraqi did was wrong, no doubt about it. However, hasn't CNN aired pictures of Iraqi POW's ? I've seen them surrendering and also POW's behind wire fences where you could clearly make out their faces. No ultra close-ups or name mentioning like the iraqi interviews though.

But until someone corrects me with the specifics in the Geneva convention I'll have to assume that both sides (Iraq to a great degree and the coalition to a lesser) have violated the convention.

I agree 100%.

 

[Snyder]

So you don't believe that the news organizations should atleast without the names of the dead and pictures of their faces until the military notifies their familities?

Of course I do.
But I honestly do not see what this has to do with what I said.

 

[Sxotty]

CNN doesn't show the Coalition asking them their names, and where they are from, beating them or exectuing them, there is one differrence for you. The main point is that Iraq is trying to show who they are and CNN is trying to show that there are people surrendering.

 

[pascal]

CNN doesn't show the Coalition asking them their names, and where they are from, beating them or exectuing them, there is one differrence for you. The main point is that Iraq is trying to show who they are and CNN is trying to show that there are people surrendering.

Is there any beating or executing video/picture?

 

[Snyder]

CNN doesn't show the Coalition asking them their names, and where they are from, beating them or exectuing them, there is one differrence for you. The main point is that Iraq is trying to show who they are and CNN is trying to show that there are people surrendering.

I suggest you read my post again. I wasn't comparing Iraqi coverage of US captives/casualties to CNN coverage of Iraqi captures/casualties. I was comparing recent coverage (or lack thereof) with coverage of past conflicts. And I clearly remember showing CNN lots of closeups of dead people in the Rwanda conflict. Or in the war in former Yugoslavia. (Where they also showed interviews with captives) Not to talk about "live" coverage. (not only from aforementioned conflicts, but also from lots of bombing attacks)

Oh, and it shouldn't have been a problem for CNN to cut out the names and to obstruct their faces.

And again (that hopefully no one misunderstands me): I do not agree with showing these pictures. I just wonder why they make such a fuss about it right now, when it hasn't been a problem in the past.

Edit: If I guess right your post was in reply to aras, oops.

 

[Sxotty]

Here you go

"Article 13 of the Convention:

"Prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity."
"

That is what the geneva convention says, you can draw your own conclusions, my opinion is that what CNN was doing might be questionable, but I doubt it, and what they were doing is pretty obviously breaking the supposed rules.

 

[aras]

CNN doesn't show the Coalition asking them their names, and where they are from, beating them or exectuing them, there is one differrence for you. The main point is that Iraq is trying to show who they are and CNN is trying to show that there are people surrendering.

...And if both turns out to be a violation (however small and subtle in CNN's case) that point seems rather moot, no ?

Edit: Thanks for the quote.

Prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity

So it's down to how you define "public curiosity".....

 

[pascal]

So it's down to how you define "public curiosity".....

Some people are already discussing it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,920645,00.html

But Amanda Williamson, a Red Cross spokeswoman, said it would not automatically be a contravention. "There's an article that prisoners should not be exposed to public curiosity, but this was not envisaged to include the media, so it's not a violation per se to put them on TV." Whether they were being exposed to public curiosity would depend on how they appeared on TV.

IIRC the article 14 talk about honour. There is a link somewhere in the guardian.

Legality apart I dont like it from any side.

 

[Sxotty]

You may be right, but more importantly we are treating the POW's better even if allowing them to be televised. But on this issue, I have to say it seems fairly obvious what was meant is that you are not supposed to parade them through towns throwing rotten cabbage at them, not to mention beating and other stuff. I think that to me it seems that Iraq even if the beating and executing were left out of it is effectively parading them around to be a spectacle, the CNN pictures you see are when someone is in the act of surrendering, not of POW's being paraded through times square.