Another nVidia/GF FX concern?

[martrox]

Here's a quote from HardOPCs front page concerning PNYs stance on their upcoming GF FX card:

Tit for Tat:We contacted PNY early last week to see if we could help give their prebuy at CompUSA coverage like we did with the BFG prebuy advertised here and were told this by PNY's Marketing Communications Manager, Nancy Larson.

We are choosing not to actively cover PNY's launch of GeForce FX.

We were hoping to give you more information on the PNY offering but it is apparent that they do not want to discuss their product with us.

While everyone has been debating the card's abilities, and even the cards retail cost, no one has even brought up the cost of the finished cards to the manufacturer and just what kind of profit margin they may recieve. The reason I bring this up is I believe the whole GFFX debacle may have even more far reaching effect on the relationship between nVidia and it's customers than it's end users. As has been said many times, the whole point of business is profit (ethics aside here). I believe this stance by the PNY Marketing to not push it's own product is very telling..........

Now, don't get me wrong. While at the moment I am a proponet of ATIs videocards, I have also owned many nVidia cards(up until the 9700, I owned nVidia cards exclusively since the downfall of 3DFX) and I personally believe that it's good FOR ALL OF US to have a strong ATI and nVidia - cheaper prices and better performance for all of us!. BTW, I do plan on getting a GF FX when available......

 

[Babel-17]

Hmmmm. If I'm reading between the lines correctly it's possible that nVidia is twisting arms, and perhaps sucking it up bigtime themselves, in order to get the GF FX out at a price at which the public will buy it? Presumably only partners who cave in to this will get quantities of future, more lucrative, chips?

Very interesting if so. To speculate on top of speculation this hints at less than awesome performance imo. Lol, certainly not "bowel loosening" as was advertised on my Visiontek Ti4600.

 

[BRiT]

Or maybe PNY doesn't want to osborne their current products. Why start to promote a product that is at least 48 days away?

 

[GraphixViolence]

Could be that PNY just recently discovered their package came up short vs. BFG's, and is now looking for a way to sweeten the deal before they start actively promoting their pre-orders.

BTW, is "osborne" a verb now?

 

[BRiT]

perhaps my spelling was off, not enough sleep, but To Osborn means that you mess up your current products by talking about future products. The effect it has is that none or a high percentage of your customers do not buy your current product since they are instead waiting for the future product. So, you don't want to have marketting be too successful on a product that is too far away.

I cant find the relevant link explaining the history behind this... Can anyone provide a link?

 

[RussSchultz]

From http://www.appelsiini.net/keitai-l/archives/2001-11/0289.html

Osborning is when a hardware company whose
finances hinge on near- to-mid-term exponential sales growth walks out in
front of the speeding truck by announcing "Oh, but we'll have a new product
ready in 6 months, one that's so-o-o much better than what we have on the
store shelves."

This came from Osborne Computers, which apparently commited suicide by pre-announcing their new product with a full warehouse of inventory.

http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lakes/6757/O1.HTML
http://www.acornworld.net/~jmayrand/osborne.html

 

[Hellbinder]

I just cant believe this stuff...

There are supposed to be GFFX's on sale in Feb.. with most arriving in early march. Has there EVER been a card produced that did not have reviews, real previews, Sales info etc etc etc by this time??? i donk think so. Yeah right.. They advertize a new product *THAT YOU CAN PREBUY* that is supposed to be available in Feb, That everyone already knows about in the ENTIRE WORLD.. and its going to kill their GF4 sales...

But instead of seeing the kettle for what it is.. now we are changing the rules to make the proceedings the *norm*?????

This is a bunch of BS. And peple should call it what it is. This whole GFFX thing is begining to cross over into the Rediculous.

 

[DemoCoder]

Wasn't one of the GF2's essentially launched/reviewed the same week it was available for purchase?

What's the ideal length of time between preview/review and hitting the shelves? On the one hand, people complain if a card is reviewed, but takes 3-5 months to arrive in volume on the shelves. On the other hand, they complain if the company holds reviews until the product is "ready".

So what do you want? 2 weeks? 1 month? 2 months? 3 months gap?

Do you think ATI was right in sending out the 8500 to be reviewed before the drivers even enabled SmoothVision? Should products ever be reviewed with half-baked drivers and alpha boards? OR, should reviews only be made of the final production level product?

 

[BRiT]

DC, all depends on the situation. The GF-FX has been hyped to death forever (~6 months), so the curious side of me wants to see the (p)reviews with some sort of numbers as soon as possible. Now when there's a bit of a sleeper product [R300], I think (p)reviews with some sort of numbers a month before wider availability is fine.

I think it was the GF2 that wasn't (p)reviewed until a week before availability, but then again NVIDIA wasn't hyping it for 6 months before then.

Hrm, this sort of reminds me of the old 3dfx commercials, but with a twist: So Delayed, It's Ridiculous.

 

[jvd]

any news about the r350 lately ? I figure i might be able to pick it up before i can pick up the fx ?

 

[Sharkfood]

Do you think ATI was right in sending out the 8500 to be reviewed before the drivers even enabled SmoothVision?

They hit the shelves this way. This made it so the review samples were functionally identical to the final retail version.

It is an interesting topic though- just what time spread should be used between a product announcement w/ reviews and it's availability on the shelves.

The best condition is when consumers have a readily available source of reviews to analyze and make their decision from BEFORE they go to the store and buy one. If a videocard hits the shelf without adequate coverage, it forces the consumer to take a risk and buy a product without any idea of expectations.

I'd say a month is about perfect to me. If a product is going to be available, say on the 15th of a month, by the 15th of the prior month should reviews be available. The review time may need to be extended if pre-order sales dictate an earlier review sample cycle.

 

[TheMightyPuck]

caveat emptor. build a better mousetrap. sic transit gloria mundi. and all that jazz.

 

[Mummy]

Wow, classic moderate and thought post Hellbinder

Dont worry martrox, if nVidia will blow up (they kinda deserve it though) we still have Revenge .

 

[Nagorak]

At this point the GFFX is kind of becoming ridiculous. I sort of question the intelligence of those who choose to "prebuy" one without even seeing the numbers. Since it's been delayed this long, I'd have some serious reluctance about just buying one blind. It may be a fine chip, but the past history of delayed products hasn't been good in terms of performance.

 

[elchuppa]

The FX is nVidia's greatest failure to date. Or was that the nv10?
By my calender the generation after the FX should be the one released in March. I don't really undestand the cries of "BS..blablabla", there's no reason to get worked up about it really. They fucked up and are doing damage control until they have a competitive product ( which is starting to look like a long way down the pipe, though ultimately we'll see). it's unrealistic to expect them to do otherwise.

I personally hope that they have a good product, and am surprised at their failure. Interestingly I think the lack of real competition may be why their execution went down the tubes, there's nothing like a behemoth in your sights to energize and focus the troops. Also it seems every successful tech company is doomed by their own success. The mooks take over from the techies, and marketing and management all of a sudden have bigger budgets than engineering.

I would be surprised if nVidia don't come back strong relatively soon. I do believe they have significantly more resources than ATI, and as far as I can tell are still quite far ahead of ATI in sales. Although perhaps ATI's finances have changed significantly due to their recent success.

peace.

 

[Doomtrooper]

Nvidia does not have more resources than ATI..to put this in perspective the 9700 and Gamecube flipper chip were designed in parallel..so ATI executed..I don't buy Carmacks excuse that Nvidia fell behind due to X-box..ATI's team did two projects and executed.

Nvidia threw all their eggs in one basket, on a die shrink and on DDR II ram that was not ready and cost feasible.

 

[KimB]

ATI didn't produce the flipper chip. That was finished before ATI purchased Art-X.

And nVidia certainly has more resources than ATI. They have more money.

Update: Just checked the financials, and the latest releases from both companies put nVidia's revenues much higher than ATI's ($430M vs. $156M, after adjusting for the exchange rate).

 

[CMKRNL]

Yes, nVidia certainly has higher revenues than ATI, but note that ATI has been reporting all financial information in US dollars for some time now, so no need to convert.

 

[Fuz]

This came from Osborne Computers, which apparently commited suicide by pre-announcing their new product with a full warehouse of inventory.

If i am not mistaken, Gateway bought Osbourne soon after Osbourne went down.

My guess, GF FX in stores early March, R350 in stores late May.

 

[Hellbinder]

there's no reason to get worked up about it really. They fucked up and are doing damage control until they have a competitive product

I would not be saying anything like that if i were you. The Nv30 is going to be faster than the 9700pro by quite a bit in FSAA+AF tests. Yes its late, and yes its getting silly. But it is a real product, and its going to deliver on the performance end.

The main area they (nvidia) are having troubble is pissing off its 3rd paty board manufacturers. the Nv30 litterally costs an arm and a leg, and by Forcing them to sell at 399$.. I have no doubt that many a bridge will get burned. Thats why you are already reading about a possible *contract* or purchasing of MSI. Its 3dfx all over again.

R350 from what i hear is even cheaper to produce than R300 and it has higher yield potential. If the R350 is as fast as the 500/500 Nv30 and is considerably cjheaper. Ati is going to win over more than a few staunch Nvidia supporting vendors.