AMD, why are basic features missing on your gpu?

Discussion in '3D Hardware, Software & Output Devices' started by gongo, Mar 6, 2010.

  1. ninelven

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    It doesn't matter. It is MY choice to make.
     
  2. Karoshi

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    Ah yes, that explains the deja vu i couldnt identify. We had this same discussion, but wrt. AA/AF, back when games offering AA/AF options were the exception.
     
  3. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    You can set programs it has problems with to be ignored by it.
     
  4. willardjuice

    willardjuice super willyjuice
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    But I don't follow your logic. There's no benefit in forcing aa/af through the cp (over using in-game options). There isn't a choice to make; aa/af should always be set through the in-game options. If a game doesn't include aa/af, I think you are misplacing your anger toward amd/nvidia. You should put the blame squarely on the developers. As a consumer you never want to resort to forcing aa/af through the cp.

    I'm not sure I follow. I think this was less of an issue "back in the day" (when most games didn't offer aa/af options) because (like Alex said) the API/developers were immature and it was trivial for nvidia/amd to supply aa/af through the cp for practically all games. Neither of those are true anymore, thus I don't understand why people feel that aa/af should be left up to amd/nvidia (other than tradition).
     
  5. Karoshi

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    I distinctly remember discussions about forcing AF for the doom3 engine and how it was a bad idea, as not all textures were "graphical" (it used textures as a replacement for ALU operations, remember the ATI patch? heh). In the era before dx9 pretty much all texture usage was graphical and could be forced to AF without second thoughts I guess. With new rendering engines it was better to let the engine decide where exactly AF made sense and where it didn't.

    Anyway, I guess it's more convenient to bitch at the 2 IHV than at 2000 ISV
    v:grin:v
    For the record, I really don't think TB/V-sync should be left to the IHVs, it's just convenient to have a central way to tidy up the poop dropped by joe random game studio.
    The reality is I still find games without V-sync or buffer chain configuration options. I could write sternly worded emails to the publishers, still, I would be getting 30fps locked (instead of 40-50) or eye cancer inducing screen tearing. I wish that wasn't the case, but I feel the driver realpolitik pov is to include those options in WHQL releases as a service to the users.
     
  6. ninelven

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    Maybe you don't want to. Maybe I do. Having the ability to do something doesn't mean one is compelled to do it.
     
  7. willardjuice

    willardjuice super willyjuice
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    But if users are not compelled to do it, why should amd/nvidia waste their resources on it?

    But why? There's no logical reason as a consumer that you would want to do this.
     
  8. doob

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    Playing older games that don't even check what resolutions your system can handle so ur forced to play at 1024x768 or not much higher, without any in-game options for aa/af is not a common logical reason?
     
  9. Richard

    Richard Mord's imaginary friend
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    Agreed. I also play a lot of older games and forcing AA/AF is a must. Perhaps new games could have "Application Preference" as a fixed setting in the game profile or whatever.
     
  10. Blazkowicz

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    using game profiles you can set recent games on application preferences for anti-aliasing (easy game profiles is what i'm waiting from AMD, hoping it won't be crossfire profiles only)

    but then why have driver settings at all. they are there for the user to commit any "abuse" he wants. To follow your advice, users have to never touch driver settings ; actually most don't - thus adopt the "righteous" behavior by default :)
    If drivers have the features we want, that's less messy than having to use more 3rd party tools.

    Besides, there's refresh rate. Applications are meant to set the refresh rate in windows 2000/XP and upwards.. but maybe 5% games allow that, mostly in .ini files or command line parameters. That was a complete failure. I still use my CRT and still have to force refreshrate (and I would if I had a 120Hz LCD).
    Running 90/95% games at 60Hz would be silly, and my monitor might run out of memory slots - I can't set it up for every resolution with both the wrong and the right refresh rate, thus I'd get to suffer black bars, distortion etc. in addition to the painful flashing and temporal aliasing.

    I agree nonetheless on best practices with AA and AF. but then again there's no point in forcing me to look at garbage with older games ; in some cases forcing AA on a game that support AA will be worth it too (I want to use the 2xQ, 8xS and 16xS, I don't care that it's unsupported if it perfectly works, and it's my problem)
     
  11. Blazkowicz

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    while a bit ridiculous you might easily script that, using rivatuner's launcher feature or a command line res-changing tool.

    this is what I like with shortcuts, game profiles, configuration files, command line parameters and occasionnal batch scripts. you can do any anal or non anal stuff to make your game perfect, once it's settled you can one-click launch your games.
     
  12. Florin

    Florin Merrily dodgy
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    Plenty of older software (some of it not that even *that* old, like say Stalker SoC, Bioshock, Oblivion, Blazing Angels 2) doesn't have settings for AA, TSAA, HDR+AA, and/or vsync, yet can run quite well with forced settings. I agree that it'd be great if they did provide this out of the box but I'm hardly gonna boycott them because they don't - they're still very enjoyable games.

    Application profiles make managing this a breeze with Nvidia, this is probably the thing I miss most on my Cypress.
     
  13. willardjuice

    willardjuice super willyjuice
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    But that misses the point. I'm not talking about removing forced aa/af for legacy purposes (as I've already stated, there was a time where forced aa/af made sense); I'm discussing why people shouldn't be mad at amd/nvidia for games like Bioshock/Mass Effect/etc not having aa/af. The developers of those games are to blame.
     
  14. ninelven

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    Then you are in the wrong thread. That isn't what this is about.
     
  15. AlexV

    AlexV Heteroscedasticitate
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    He's in the right thread. This is what it is about. I can do empty one liners too. Refrigerator.
     
  16. doob

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    My apologies, i read it out of context, i agree with ur view.
     
  17. ninelven

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    Wow. Mods are allowed to troll now?

    Where in this thread has anyone blamed IHVs for ISVs not including AA/AF options? Furthermore, the OP doesn't even mention AA/AF.
     
    #37 ninelven, Mar 8, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 8, 2010
  18. willardjuice

    willardjuice super willyjuice
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    What thread have you been reading? The discussion is about forcing features in games through the control panel. The discussion started with triple buffering and then naturally progressed to v-sync/aa/af.

     
  19. ninelven

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    Which still has absolutely nothing to do with assigning blame for ISVs' laziness onto IHVs.
     
  20. willardjuice

    willardjuice super willyjuice
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    The title of this thread is....

    When in reality "basic features" like triple-buffering support are up to developers, not AMD.
     
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