AMD: Navi Speculation, Rumours and Discussion [2019]

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by Kaotik, Jan 2, 2019.

  1. ToTTenTranz

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    And OEMs don't take a share for the discrete graphics cards they assemble, certify, test and distribute?
     
  2. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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  3. Malo

    Malo Yak Mechanicum
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    Sure but they don't take a % of the asking price by Apple, they take a fixed amount negotiated far in advance which might be an ok amount but nothing close to the absurd profits Apple demands just because.
     
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  4. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    I'm pretty sure AMD didn't design exclusive chip for Apple for free, which needs to be taken into account too, not just the price AMD gets per each chip
     
  5. ToTTenTranz

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    So we're comparing a percentage we don't really know to a percentage we don't really know?
     
  6. Entropy

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    A major quality of this release is that it demonstrates the folly of ascribing a power efficieny metric to an architecture based on a single implementation. The performance per Watt of this little fellow is pretty damn good.
    One might hope that this is kept in mind once Ampere and RDNA2 products are compared.
     
  7. Benetanegia

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    I don't know why it should be taken in special consideration. It's just an underclocked/undervolted part like we've seen plenty of times before, from both vendors.

    As for comparisons to Nvidia architectures at similar TDPs it seems to sit between:

    Tesla P4 - 4.3 TFLOPS 50W
    Tesla T4 - 8.1 TFLOPS (+euqal INT) 70W

    So it doesn't seem to be much better than Pascal and lags behind Turing, despite the node advantage, which is the same pattern we see on higher TDP products...
     
  8. yuri

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    This launch of a HBM2-backed Apple exclusive midrange makes on wonder. Is HBM2 still expensive? I guess it is, since it has appeared only on "exclusive" or highend products.

    AMD's plans for a HBM2-based mainstream Vega models sound so weird.
     
  9. Bondrewd

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    Yes but demand is the big player here.
    Yeah where volumes are small so you don't have to fight all the HPC and networking horseshit over KGSD capacity.
     
  10. Entropy

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    I commented on what was going on at rx5700xt release and which IMO has been taking place with embarrasing frequency here - that very strong language has been used to describe tiny percentages, and/or all conclusions drawn from a single data point. Which would draw critisism if found in a middle school science project, and really has no place here.
    (And incidentally, there is nothing that says that two different architectures on different processes will respond identically on a frequency/power curve, in fact the differences has been shown in graphs repeatedly. So when you have a single data point, it makes sense to be very non-comittal in your language about these things. And if you’re not, what does it say about your motives?)

    As an aside, this implementation will differ in its performance profile as well, since it improves bandwidth/FLOP significantly over its siblings.
     
  11. CarstenS

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    So what's the fundamental change in conclusion now that we have two datapoints each?
     
  12. szatkus

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    Are there any Navi 10 die shot? HBM2 controller would be visible if it's the same chip and not Navi 12.

    Edit: oh, nevermind
     
    #2272 szatkus, Jun 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  13. Entropy

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    They aren’t terribly comparable though, are they?
    The new Navi GPU is an alternate take. Still performance oriented, but with power draw as a much stronger design criterion. I would love to have something like this in a desktop computer that was like a half height Xsx. Or the Apple G4 cube, if you will. Rather than having a desktop computer that is essentially the same as the one I built for Quake3 25 years ago, only now with 8 times the power draw. Yuck. Todays desktop computers feel like the American muscle cars of the sixties. Yeah, they do have the Tyrannosaurus Rexes in terms of power but they are still an evolutionary dead end.
     
  14. kalelovil

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    The specifications for the MacBook GPU new match what is known about Navi12 (CU count, memory controller count) from benchmark/diagnostic leaks.
    Navi12 is definitely a separate chip because it has a slightly different compiler target supporting more instructions than Navi10 (https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...nd-discussion-2019.61042/page-90#post-2103539).
     
  15. CarstenS

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    Well, we now have a take of Turing and Navi from runing things near (or past) their respective sweet spots in the performance oriented desktop version as well as variants that have to cram as much compute and memory bandwidth in a comparatively limited power envelope.

    Personally, I'm not seeing fundamentally different conclusions architecture wise. What's amiss though is sustained performance numbers with the power constrained chips. Without them, I can only derive T4 is about 50 % more TFLOPS at 40-ish % higher power than the Radeon Pro 5600M. But probably that's a very short term or rather a very serial boost number on T4. Under load, I expect frequencies to drop down way more significantly than with the Radeon part.
     
  16. Benetanegia

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    Yeah I do understand your point and I would have taken it more seriously if you just didn't end your post with the sentence that you did. It will differ? Surely you do have all the data points to back that up?

    Also "there is nothing that says"? Nothing? Really trully nothing? LIke there's no science behind it or something?

    See? Maybe it's not so much about how something is written as much as it is about understanding it in the context of being under an speculation thread. My two cents.

    P.S. I do make an effort to always use non-comittal language in my post, but I understand when mistakes are made, and I make them myself. The fact that there's one very comitted claim (and another which is also close) in your post about the need to be cautious with language, speaks volumes IMO.
     
  17. ethernity

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    Some new patents applications specifically for RT from AMD

    20200193681
    MECHANISM FOR SUPPORTING DISCARD FUNCTIONALITY IN A RAY TRACING CONTEXT

    20200193682
    MERGED DATA PATH FOR TRIANGLE AND BOX INTERSECTION TEST IN RAY TRACING
    20200193683
    ROBUST RAY-TRIANGLE INTERSECTION
    20200193684
    EFFICIENT DATA PATH FOR RAY TRIANGLE INTERSECTION

    20200193685
    WATER TIGHT RAY TRIANGLE INTERSECTION WITHOUT RESORTING TO DOUBLE PRECISION
     
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  18. Frenetic Pony

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    A few days of looking over the PS5 footage, and Pramata is definitely the most interesting title in technical terms. So much raytracing the entire image is a noisy flicker; we've got GI, reflections, and who knows what else. And there's plenty of time for denoising to be added as it won't release for another two years. Still, it appears RDNA2 raytracing has some solid level of efficiency in implementation:

     
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  19. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    Navi12 benchmarks, does really well challenging even Vega 48/56 of iMac(Pro) in places
     
  20. Bondrewd

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    Yeah it's a very green'n'mean setup there (same for Ampere more or less), cheap denoising is the next frontier now.
     
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