AGP is not dead

Rambus is the future, we must kill DDR ....

:?
sure, pci-express is sooo much better....i even heard there is at least one synthetic benchmark that shows how much faster pci-express video cards are ........ :devilish:
 
look at nvidia SDK, there is a demo about streaming texture data from/to video card. It runs much faster on PCI-E, and such effects are the future. Also, PCI-E allows more power and has a nice board lock :)
 
chavvdarrr said:
sure, pci-express is sooo much better....i even heard there is at least one synthetic benchmark that shows how much faster pci-express video cards are ........ :devilish:
Click to expand...

The argument for the death of AGP isn't that PCIe has benefits today. The fact is PCIe is "better" all around and it makes no sense to have redundant interfaces on the market - the IHV's certainly don't want that. What they should do is keep selling AGP graphics cards in decent quantities and stop selling AGP motherboards altogether. The NF3 Ultra is just delaying the inevitable.
 
An upgrade to a PCIe mobo is essentially a full system upgrade (mobo + CPU + graphics card). This is unfortunate, and will slow the adoption of PCIe by people who like to build non-high-end systems themselves.

PCIe may well be the best thing since ... the last time we changed the slot we put our graphics cards in, and IHVs may well not like having to carry boards featuring both slots, but I for one am *less* likely to upgrade in the near future because of the existence of PCIe. So they either sell me an AGP mobo, or they don't get any of my money.
 
What compelling reason would one have to upgrade to a next generation AGP motherboard without upgrading the rest of your components? If your board dies that's fine but it's not like there aren't a lot of existing SocketA, 754 and 939 motherboards out there already (sticking to AMD since I don't know Intel stuff :oops: ). You can pick one of those if you really need AGP. Guess I should have said that they shouldn't introduce new AGP motherboards to the market but keep selling limited quantities of existing products.
 
AGP provides more than enough bandwidth for today and even future games. PCIe has some excellent improvement but it will be a long time before games (if ever) benefit from them. Usually video cards are not interface limited. Hell, AGP4X still serves most cards very well.

Though one must ask if the reason we are not interface limited is because of the usual need to target the lowest common denominator. Perhaps games would push more data if AGP8X+ was what everyone had. And everyone had R300/NV40+. Obviously that isn't even remotely the case. So you see, as usual, immediate adoption of new tech is completely pointless.

There is no good reason to jump to PCIe right now unless you are overhauling. I'm not so sure it's worth overhauling right now though. I'd wait until R520 hits the scene and maybe for dual core to become more supported and prevalent (ie cheaper).
 
R520 to play Sims 3, can't wait
homer.gif
 
When you can buy a decent PCIe MB for under $100* and you are paying around $50more for AGP vidcards all of a sudden the upgrade cost is not so bad.......

*I have 2 Chaintech VNF4/Ultras ATM, one of which I am running a 3000+ Venice core at 2700. The non ultra version is available for under $80, the Ultra for around $90

If you prefer a "better" namebrand, you can get a DFI nF4-DAGF for $89 ATM here:

http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merc...;Product_Code=110248&Category_Code=AMD939

I will have one of these on Monday...... ;)
 
martrox said:
When you can buy a decent PCIe MB for under $100* and you are paying around $50more for AGP vidcards all of a sudden the upgrade cost is not so bad.......
Click to expand...

Right, can I fit my Socket A processor in it? Oh, no, I have to fork out for an S939 processor, which is at least £100 ($180). Oh and now my AGP graphics card doesn't fit either, so I have to buy the PCIe equivalent, another £200 ($360).

So if my mobo goes south I'm looking at £70 to replace it, or £370 to "upgrade" to the PCIe equivalent of what I have already (that's not counting the cost of a sound card capable of outputting DDL, probably another £80). It's a no-brainer really.

I can see trinibwoys point that maybe the time for new models of AGP mobos might be coming to a close, but there's still a large market for the the existing models IMO.
 
Of course not - not that I tend to play CPU-heavy game anyway, mostly MMOGs and strategy games, so frames-per-second aren't that critical to me.

My policy in the past has been to upgrade CPUs when I can get twice the performance for a decent price (<£100). I have a 3200 CPU now, so I'm not going anywhere until we're in the 6000+ regime, and until I can get that processor for <£100. That's quite a while away.

I'm reckoning my next major upgrade will be on a timescale of Longhorn ... so about 18+ months from now ... and will be driven by the (presumed lack of) availability of G80s/R600s as AGP cards.
 
swaaye said:
AGP provides more than enough bandwidth for today and even future games. PCIe has some excellent improvement but it will be a long time before games (if ever) benefit from them. Usually video cards are not interface limited. Hell, AGP4X still serves most cards very well.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree with this standpoint, hence why I think the push towards PCI-E *now* is absolutely proper timing.

IHV's have been horse-and-carroting users to upgrade for the single perk of having the high-end available earlier for PCI-E users (ala 7800GTX, for example). This adds incentive for upgrade path to high-end users.

I'm betting we'll see an AGP version of the 7800GTX either announced or shipping in the next 90 days. Enough years of this tactic from both IHV's might be enough to put a match under gamer's butts to get a slow migration over the course of the next year or two- when PCI-E will actually offer something tangibly beneficial.
 
There are barely any PCI-E cards out, i'm still waiting for a good soundcard and scsi card on PCI-E. And i'm not sure how scsi will evolve onto the PCI-E platform, haven't read up on it yet.
So the compelling argument that it's better is good.
But what usage? I want to see tv-cards, soundcards, network cards, raid cards, scsi cards and a shitload of other cards on pci-e before i make the change hence why i'm waiting until 2006 before i will probably make the change to pci-e
 
chavvdarrr said:
Rambus is the future, we must kill DDR ....

:?
sure, pci-express is sooo much better....i even heard there is at least one synthetic benchmark that shows how much faster pci-express video cards are ........ :devilish:
Click to expand...

AGP initially was no better than PCI, but a few generations later and AGP cards were outperforming the same PCI card by 20%, and that gap just kept increasing and fast.(well, assuming they had kept producing high end pci cards)

What compelling reason would one have to upgrade to a next generation AGP motherboard without upgrading the rest of your components? If your board dies that's fine but it's not like there aren't a lot of existing SocketA, 754 and 939 motherboards out there already (sticking to AMD since I don't know Intel stuff Embarassed ). You can pick one of those if you really need AGP. Guess I should have said that they shouldn't introduce new AGP motherboards to the market but keep selling limited quantities of existing products.
Click to expand...

I don't wanna upgrade my video card right now because it's good enough, and I don't want to buy another AGP motherboard because what I have is good enough, and I know eventually I will have to go PCI-E.
Now then, that ULi board with AGP and PCI-Express is kind of interesting, but I don't know if it's overclocking features are up to par with nforce 4, for that matter I definetely don't think its drivers are. It's not really an option if I want the absolute best without being raped of my money.
 
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