6XAA on 6800 series

Discussion in '3D Hardware, Software & Output Devices' started by Dimahnbloe, Aug 19, 2004.

  1. Dimahnbloe

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    In a thread on the Rage3d board, there was a thread on the performance of the 6800 and x800 in HL2 and some one mentioned how the 6800 suffered from the lack of a 6X multisampling implementation. I got to thinking about the different modes of AA offered by both cards. Why does Nvidia not offer a 6X mode? If I am not mistaken, most people are saying that the 6800 Series offers the same type of AA as the X800 series except when dealing with Nvidias highest quality mode which is a combination of SS*MS. I never really thought that long about it before, but could this be a strategically move rather than a hardware limitation on their part??? The only thing that I could think of is that if they did offer a standard 6X mode it would always be compared as an apples to apples comparison to ATI's 6X mode as the standard for quality settings. Considering the fact that the X800 series has a decent advantage in most 1600X1200 4XAA 8XAF modes and even in 1280*1024, the 6800's could take a considerable hit in performance and marketability if a 6X mode was available and used in the benchmarks. I wonder what would happen if ATI were to try to use an 8X method similar to Nvidias combination attempt? I know one thing, if a 6X mode was available on both cards, websites would definitely bench in those modes and that would make for some interesting numbers for sure. Would it level the playing field for Nvidia and show that when a true load is placed on the cards that they do come out even or would it further emphasize the dominance of the X800's when AA is enabled?? It in fact might let us know who has the better multisample implementation and it may lead us to see which of the two platforms is truly in the higher class, whether it's a more plished implementation of AA or is simply using the brute force of the GPU. What do you guys think??
     
  2. Evildeus

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    Wow, that way too compact.
    Well, they don't do thing the same way, nevertheless, you can enable a 6*AA mode in rivaturner it seems ;)
     
  3. Ichneumon

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    I expect Nvidia doesn't offer a 6x(s) mode because at best it would be 4x MS w/ 2x SS... and that would Always incur a worse performance hit than ATI's 6x.

    I don't think ATI offers 8x because, for one thing the hardware can do 6 samples at once but not 8(?) and so it would be some kind of MS/SS combination which ATI doesn't want to offer for them to have an 8x mode.
     
  4. Rys

    Rys PowerVR
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    NV4x can only do two MSAA samples per ROP and only loop through twice, so 4X MSAA is a hardware limitation.

    Also, ATI can do 8X using its programmable sample grids to do 'temporal' AA with 2 different 4X grids.

    Rys
     
  5. Dimahnbloe

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    One of you said it that it has to be a combination of two modes and the other said that it can be done using Rivatuner. Is the Rivatuner accomplishing it using two modes or is it true multisamply enabled in a different way than Nvidia does.

    Who says it can't be done in their hardware, Nvidia??? or are we assuming from a general consensus. If stated by Nvidia, when was this stated where they really ever questioned about this?? Link anyone??
     
  6. Dimahnbloe

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    for your NV4x info were you looking at a diagram or some information in the white paper released about the hardware. If so did it state that this information is specific to 6X not be avialable or are you making a reasonable deduction and calling it the reason for the limitation. Again if so, why design your hardware this way and then force yourself to take an enourmouse performance hit by emplementing the 8X combination.

    Is it true that if standing still in game that temporal does not work??? or at least it's not noticable??
     
  7. jvd

    jvd
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    its notcible. You have to look really closely as jaggies are more noticable when you walk anyway.

    Thats when u get the stair effect . When u stand still you can still see the jaggies but u have to look for them. its just like aniso. You can more easly tell its on when moving
     
  8. kyleb

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    from what i can tell it works best when you are standing still as that is the only time the sample patrens get to shift back and forth on the edges at the same angle for each frame, but it still looks damn good in motion too.
     
  9. martrox

    martrox Old Fart
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    Temporal FSAA is for real! I just picked up a X800Pro today, installed in my second gaming box(AthlonXPM at 2.3 gig) and let me tell you, the FSAA is more than impressive. Running COH at 1280X960 6Xfsaa w/ Temporal on(effectively 12), 16X Anso has to be seen to be believed. I know I'm going to get flamed, but it puts my 6800GT at 1280X960, 4XFSAA and 16X AF to shame - the GT looks gritty by comparison - it's not a small difference. I'm pretty shocked by the IQ difference......
     
  10. Ailuros

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    http://www.beyond3d.com/previews/nvidia/nv40/index.php?p=11

     
  11. jvd

    jvd
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    Yes its really nice.

    I don't like anything higher on my 19inch crt than 1027x768 (guess im really used to it and well ic an't read the text with a higher res) and i can play with 6x fsaa on my x800xt pe on almost all the games. I'm donig that right now with counter strike source . The temporal is just icing on the cake
     
  12. Ailuros

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    In game higher resolutions have obviously nothing to do with text size like in a browser. Higher resolutions also reduce significantly texture aliasing, especially wherever trilinear and/or AF don´t proove to be sufficient and Multisampling won´t affect anything but polygon edges.

    It´s clearly a matter of taste though and what annoys anyone most.
     
  13. jvd

    jvd
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    In most mmorpgs the boxes for the text and what not become smaller . So too does the text.

    And in thos e games its a pain not to be able to read haha .
     
  14. Ailuros

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    As I said to each his own. That´s one game genre by the way. I guess fast paced FPS games or any kind of racing sims should also include subtitles from now on...." quick shoot dat monsta..." or "step on the gas you turtle..." :lol:
     
  15. jvd

    jvd
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    thats really all i play :)
     
  16. martrox

    martrox Old Fart
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    I've got a 21" IBM P202...... Text size really matters - for us older folks!..... and that's why 1280X is about as large as I can go. Most all games I've played the text size goes down as the rez goes up.
     
  17. Fodder

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    Generally things like the HUD do shrink as you ramp the resolution up. I don't mind it so much in FPS games but text can get a little pokey in some RTS or RPG titles.
     
  18. Ailuros

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    Depends on the resolution and the size of the monitor and of course anyone's personal taste.

    See above. 1280*960 on a 21" is an entirely different story than 1280 on a 17 or even 15". Past 17" a 1280 resolution should be perfectly readable apart from some extreme corner cases.
     
  19. ChrisRay

    ChrisRay <span style="color: rgb(124, 197, 0)">R.I.P. 1983-
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    There are 2 forms of 6xAA still available on the 6800, Both need to be unlocked.

    One is the old 6x with the released Geforce 5800 series, Which is 4x OGMSS and super sampling. Looks worse than 4x on the 6800NU cards.

    Also there is the 12, Which looks worse than 8x but performs worse too.
     
  20. KimB

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    This is not even remotely close to 8x AA. Not by one hell of a long shot.
     
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