[2003] Is Xbox #2 in Europe?

[Teasy]

I replied to the first bit in another thread and I can't be bothered to do it again here.

The numbers aren't publically available that I've found, but the results are mentioned here.

If the results aren't available then how can anyone start making firm claims on these numbers?

There's always allot more then "one is higher then the other". For instance what if GC is still winning in Germany and France and its only XBox's U.K numbers that are taking it ahead? Then that bares the question, what if the rest of Europe is like Germany and France as far as sales go? (more likely then it being like the U.K as the U.K is very different from the rest of Europe). That may mean that GC is still ahead overall in Europe. See what I mean?.. we need to be able to analyze the numbers rather then have MS say "We've seen ChartTrack and Gfk numbers and XBox's is ahead of GC".

Are you saying MS lied?

Of course not, MS don't lie, they just throw out PR like most companies.. just more then most companies.

MS and Nintendo both gave sold to retailer numbers.

Why would Nintendo give sold to retailer numbers for some countries and not others then? There Asian numbers simply cannot be sold to retailers.

If people don't believe the official numbers, then they're the fanboys, not me...

People believe official numbers, but some don't automatically believe them in a way that puts XBox in the best light (as in assuming that both are sold to retailers).

It was all over the Internet (and actually in newspapers thanks to Reuters) because Nintendo mislead everyone to believing they were #2 in Europe.

You sound sure for someone with no actual sold to comsumer numbers. Especially considering the numbers from ChartTrack and Gfk are barely 50% of Europe numbers.

They used their official sold to retailer numbers and compared it to a very conservative estimate by some market research firm for MS' numbers.

In your opinion yeah.

All I ask is that if these numbers are out there, people at least wait until we actually see the numbers before posting thread after thread saying "XBox is 2nd in Europe".

Geeforcer

But Teasy, I could turn this around and claim the opposite: that there are 2 threads on the topic and yet some still fail to see the obvious. The only perso... people grasping at straws here are the ones who are still reciting the "Don't trust MS", "Show me the numbers" and "Er... I don't like this numbers, therefore they are invalid. Show me other numbers" rhetoric.

But that was what Glonk already said, and I turned it around, so there isn't much point of you turning it back around

People are saying don't trust MS.. because, well you shouldn't just trust them, you also shouldn't just trust Nintendo. People are saying show the numbers because, well, we have seen no numbers. I haven't seen anyone saying "I don't like this number so its invalid".

Of course this is MSs own announcement. Did you expect Sony to announce how well Xbox is doing?

No I expect an independent firm to show numbers for both consoles. Preferably one that shows more then just U.K, Germany and France, but even that would be more use then MS's own PR.

Regarding the independent sources, they are sited in the press release. BTW, Gfk is a German-based international market research firm. Their website is (drum roll)

I'm to lazy to find the press release , could someone post a link?

 

[Glonk]

The reply I gave in the other thread was also logical, the burden of proof is on everyone.

No, you basically misunderstand how the retail market works for video games...

Retailers buy them from Nintendo/MS, then resell them.

If the results aren't available then how can anyone start making firm claims on these numbers?

I never said the numbers aren't available, I said they aren't publically available.
The numbers are available to subscribers (of which MS obviously is one). They've seen the numbers, they issued a press release bragging about how they're #2 in both GfK (France/Germany) and ChartTrack (UK) and outsold the Gamecube by 2:1 in December.

The specific numbers are available, just not publically (yet). Although it doesn't matter, MS announced that they're in 2nd from those sources, surely they aren't lying...

There Asian numbers simply cannot be sold to retailers.

I strongly disagree. The MediaCreate numbers are estimates, they may be higher or lower...you said yourself they're off by about 100K?

You sound sure for someone with no actual numbers but those from MS.

MS stated they're in 2nd place, not only in their sold to retailer numbers but according to those firms as well. They wouldn't claim 2nd place according to those firms unless those firms showed they were in 2nd place...

Especially considering the numbers from ChartTrack and Gfk are barely 50% of Europe numbers.

You wanna give me figures on that?
Germany and the UK are the second and first largest territories respectively in Europe for video games, last I checked...

People are saying don't trust MS.. because, well you shouldn't trust them.

Nintendo's the one that mislead people with their 1.4M figure for Xbox.

 

[Teasy]

Glonk, I've yet to find out for sure if your right there. But then I wasn't only refering to that. I also said that just because Nintendo didn't mention a specific tracking firm doesn't mean they didn't use one. They also mentioned no tracking firm for Asian numbers but must have used one. If Japanese tracking services say that GC has sold 2.5 million to consumers in Japan alone and Nintendo say they sold 2.5 million to retailers in the entire of Asia then apparently there isn't even enough GC's in Asia to allow 2.5 million consumers to own a GC never mind GC's on store shelves.

I never said the numbers aren't available, I said they aren't publically available.
The numbers are available to subscribers (of which MS obviously is one). They've seen the numbers, they issued a press release bragging about how they're #2 in both GfK (France/Germany) and ChartTrack (UK) and outsold the Gamecube by 2:1 in December.

Exactly, instead of seeing actual numbers we're only hearing MS say "we're ahead in Europe according to these numbers". How far ahead?.. 1000 consoles? Ahead in all three places or ahead in the U.K and behind in Germany and France? When they say they outsold GC 2:1 are they using both CT and Gfk or just CT? There are allot of questions that we need the real numbers to answer.

I strongly disagree. The MediaCreate numbers are estimates, they may be higher or lower...you said yourself they're off by about 100K?

They may have been 100,000 higher or lower then Nintendo's 2.5 million number (2.4 or 2.6). But what does that matter? The fact is if around 2.4 million GC's have been sold in Japan alone then there must be about 3-3.5 million sold to stores, not 2.5 million sold to stores.

You wanna give me figures on that?
Germany and the UK are the second and first largest territories respectively in Europe for video games, last I checked...

Yeah the U.K is the largest single region and Germany is second largest. But then with Europe spreading over more then 30 countries the U.K could be 10% of the European market and still be the biggest single region in Europe. I think its more like 20-25% though. Germany is more like 20% and France is less then that, probably by quite some way.

 

[Qroach]

...and some people say it's always quincy vrs teasy? HA!

 

[Glonk]

I was hoping you'd take over, I'm drilling my head into a wall here.

 

[Qroach]

no, no, you're doing fine... Please continue...

 

[Teasy]

...and some people say it's always quincy vrs teasy? HA!

I agree

 

[Glonk]

It's reached a stalemate.

Teasy won't rest until concrete numbers are released, and even then he'll probably fall back on the "it only covers 64.21% of the market" routine. 8)

 

[Qroach]

Honestly I think teasy is grasping at straws on this one ( no offense meant). the way i see it hereis.

Nintendo quotes numbers, that can't even be backed with using some external source, and they are belived.

MS ONLY quotes numbers from independant tracking companies, and they can't be trusted.

See a pattern here?

Also, this talk orf the UK only representing 10% of the entire euro console market is a load of crap, they prepresent something closer to 40-50% of the euro market. I'd estimate german around 20-25% All the other countries are pretty small in comparrison.

 

[Teasy]

There isn't enough info here to have anything but a stalemate, which is why I wish you had waited until we had the actual numbers to post this.

If we had the numbers then depending on how the numbers came out then yeah the percentage of total Euro sales in those three places would come into it. But I wouldn't "fall back on it only covers 64.21% of the market routine", that suggests that its not actually a worthy argument, it is. If it wasn't a worthy argument then I wouldn't argue, do you see me arguing that XBox is ahead in the U.S?

The fact is we need the actual numbers to be able to really evaluate wether XBox is deffinately ahead in Europe or wether its very possible that GC is ahead.

 

[Qroach]

The fact is we need the actual numbers to be able to really evaluate wether XBox is deffinately ahead in Europe or wether its very possible that GC is ahead.

Teasy that's BS man. ahead of those gamecube numbers that nintendo gave without anything to back them up? they didn't even quote an external source. Why is it you aren't questioning nintnedo's oringinal numbers, considering they aren't backing it up buy using external tracking companies?

Why is that?

 

[Teasy]

Quincy, the point your missing there is when Nintendo announced those numbers they were not just believed, not by me anyway. So its incorrect to say thay I believed one and not the other.

Also, this talk orf the UK only representing 10% of the entire euro console market is a load of crap, they prepresent something closer to 40-50% of the euro market. I'd estimate german around 20-25% All the other countries are pretty small in comparrison.

I didn't say that the U.K represented only 10%, I said that the U.K could only be 10% of Euro sales and still be the biggest single market in Europe. I was making a point that being the biggest single market in Europe does not mean its a massive percentage when you have 30+ countries in Europe.

I don't agree that the U.K represents 40-50% of European sales, I agree that Germany is probably 20% though. If the U.K is 50% and Germany is 25% that would only leave 25% for about 30 more countries in Europe including France, Holland ect.

 

[Teasy]

Teasy that's BS man. ahead of those gamecube numbers that nintendo gave without anything to back them up? they didn't even quote an external source. Why is it you aren't questioning nintnedo's oringinal numbers, considering they aren't backing it up buy using external tracking companies?

I don't see anyone posting threads like "GC is 2nd in Europe" based on those numbers do you?

Anyway all I've questioned about MS's numbers are wether they are of the same meaning as Nintendo's numbers. As well as saying that we need to see these CT and Gfk numbers before we can make a judgement on wether or not XBox is deffinately ahead in the whole of Europe or not.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Poor Teasy...

 

[Geeforcer]

BTW, we do know that UK is the third biggest market in the world, right?

 

[Qroach]

yup

 

[Cyan]

The original Xbox has turned 15 in Europe... So many memories, it was my first console. Loved the materials and the duke.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-03-14-the-original-xbox-turns-15-in-europe

this video shows how it was manufactured:

 

[swaaye]

I fixed up 3 old Xboxs for some kids last summer. These machines have problems with trace corrosion/rot, bad caps in the PSU, bad caps causing even more trace corrosion, DVD drives that fall apart, dead hard drives, broken solder joints, seized GPU fan, etc. The controller wires often fray at the controller and this can fry the controller (USB) ports. One machine ended up being a combination of a couple broken ones. They were revision 1.0, 1.4, and 1.6, I think.

But yeah it has some classic games, is fun to mod, and I love how it can output up to 1080i.

 

[Cyan]

I fixed up 3 old Xboxs for some kids last summer. These machines have problems with trace corrosion/rot, bad caps in the PSU, bad caps causing even more trace corrosion, DVD drives that fall apart, dead hard drives, broken solder joints, seized GPU fan, etc. The controller wires often fray at the controller and this can fry the controller (USB) ports. One machine ended up being a combination of a couple broken ones. They were revision 1.0, 1.4, and 1.6, I think.

But yeah it has some classic games, is fun to mod, and I love how it can output up to 1080i.

hehe, the manufacturing process seems so solid and so good you would never expect that. Many people still use it for the emulation scene. I just noticed they were manufactured one by one in the video, and I am surprised to see that the workers aren't in a Chinese assembly plant.:smile2:

 

[Nesh]

Man the original XBOX controller was one of the worst I have ever laid my hands on