[2003] Is Xbox #2 in Europe?

[bbot]

According to this news article, it is:

http://www.teamxbox.com/news.php?id=4017

Who should be believed? Microsoft or Nintendo?

 

[Guest]

8)

 

[Qroach]

well this is independant, so i trust these more than MS or nintendo. I think the reason Xbox is doing well in PAl regions is becuase it's much easier to get your software approved and manufactured.

MS allows you to submit for concept approval once, and get approved for release in both regions at the same time. At that point you get your game ID and you're ready to go. Sony and Nintendo both require you to have a contract with Sony/nintendo of Europe first, and then you have to go through the concept submission/approval second time. essentially, the Euro Nintendo and Sony are almost like seperate entities.

I think the streamlined method for MS is much better for publishers since all you want to do is get your game out ASAP after the NTSC release.

 

[cybamerc]

Those numbers are from an M$ press release and the numbers are no more independant than those mentioned in Nintendo's press release which were also from a tracking service.

 

[Qroach]

Chart-Track and GfK numbers for the 2002 calendar year indicate that Xbox has well exceeded the million-console mark in the UK, France, and Germany alone.

Read a little closer. This isn't based off MS numbers, it's based off independant sales tracking companies.

 

[Gollum]

There is a small but significant difference cybamerc. When all numbers, such as in this case, are based off the same independent sources that makes them at least comparable, whereas Nintendo compared independent estimates to their own official numbers, NOT the same thing! Anyway, I also have an issue with this PR:

These are the GfK and Chart-Track numbers MS related to, they show market share for december in UK, Germany and France:
PS 2: 68,9 %
Xbox: 20,4 %
NGC: 10,7 %
Again, as in november which had similar numbers, its only market share in sales for a certain time period, not total sales! So while they do claim to have sold well over 1M units in those 3 countries combined this does not indicate they are actually ahead of Nintendo in total units sold in Europe. That is unless I missed that bit of information somewhere...

 

[Teasy]

Charttrack are U.K only and I have no idea who "GfK Xbox" are but the XBox part doesn't exactly sound independent.

Also as Gollum said, they're only for November, more PR.

 

[Gollum]

AFAIK GfK is an independent market research group here from Germany that also cover France and a few other places, they got nothing to do with MS or Xbox, at least not that I'm aware off...

edit: UK numbers are from Chart-Track, Germany and France from GfK, I guess the percentages published were are an average of these 3 markets...

 

[Teasy]

Wierd, I wonder why the article called them "Gfk Xbox". Typo I suppose.

 

[wazoo]

well this is independant, so i trust these more than MS or nintendo. I think the reason Xbox is doing well in PAl regions is becuase it's much easier to get your software approved and manufactured

Bundles and heavy advertising, that is all.

 

[Glonk]

First lots of kids hid behind the veil of "Nintendo's numbers are sold to consumers and MS' are sold to retail", even though if they stopped to think about it logically that doesn't make sense at all. Both were sold to retailer. MS sold more to retailers than Nintendo.

Couple days later, two independent firms confirm the findings with sold to consumer numbers, and Xbox is indeed #2, and still they try to find excuses.

How many posts until someone says "Wait 'till Zelda?"

 

[Teasy]

Glonk

First, how do you know that both MS and Nintendo are giving sold to retailer numbers?

Second exactly which independent sources backed up the numbers? Show me the numbers from these sources.

Third stop acting like such a fan-boy baby, insulting people just because they don't share your zeel to instantly believe MS.

Rather then people making excuses it looks like some people are clutching at straws. 2 seperate threads both making claims that XBox is second in Europe based on what?.. MS's own announcement.. that's desperation.

 

[Glonk]

First, how do you know that both MS and Nintendo are giving sold to retailer numbers?

I thought I've been through this before. Think about it.

The only way MS and Nintendo can know how many they sold to consumers is via an estimate from a market research firm. Nintendo's 1.5M figure and MS' 1.8M figure cited no such research firm. They just stated they "sold" them. MS and Nintendo did indeed sell these consoles, but to retailers.

The burden of proof isn't on me, what I'm saying follows logically. If you want to prove Nintendo is giving sold to consumer numbers, I have to ask where they got those from?

Second exactly which independent sources backed up the numbers? Show me the numbers from these sources.

The numbers aren't publically available that I've found, but the results are mentioned here.

Third stop acting like such a fan-boy baby, insulting people just because they don't share your zeel to instantly believe MS.

Are you saying MS lied?
MS and Nintendo both gave sold to retailer numbers. When they're released in earning statements and press releases, I can assume they're accurate -- otherwise they'd be in a shitload of trouble with the government for misleading investors.

If people don't believe the official numbers, then they're the fanboys, not me...

2 seperate threads both making claims that XBox is second in Europe based on what?.. MS's own announcement.. that is desperation.

It was all over the Internet (and actually in newspapers thanks to Reuters) because Nintendo mislead everyone to believing they were #2 in Europe.

They used their official sold to retailer numbers and compared it to a very conservative estimate by some market research firm for MS' numbers.

It's not MS you should be wary of. MS compared apples to apples: Two research firms, one conclusion. Nintendo tried research firm vs. sold to retailer.

 

[Geeforcer]

Glonk

First, how do you know that both MS and Nintendo are giving sold to retailer numbers?

Second exactly which independent sources backed up the numbers? Show me the numbers from these sources.

Third stop acting like such a fan-boy baby, insulting people just because they don't share your zeel to instantly believe MS.

Rather then people making excuses it looks like some people are clutching at straws. 2 seperate threads both making claims that XBox is second in Europe based on what?.. MS's own announcement.. that is desperation.

But Teasy, I could turn this around and claim the opposite: that there are 2 threads on the topic and yet some still fail to see the obvious. The only perso... people grasping at straws here are the ones who are still reciting the "Don't trust MS", "Show me the numbers" and "Er... I don't like this numbers, therefore they are invalid. Show me other numbers" rhetoric.

Of course this is MSs own announcement. Did you expect Sony to announce how well Xbox is doing? Regarding the independent sources, they are sited in the press release. BTW, Gfk is a German-based international market research firm. Their website is (drum roll) http://www.gfk.com .

 

[Glonk]

Chart-Track's figures are only available to subscribers right now, and nobody has leaked specifics (they're released mondays).

But I did find out that Peter Moore (former COO and President of Sega America) just joined MS today...

 

[Qroach]

Whaaa? perter moore joined MS???

 

[Qroach]

Also, there's NO way to track sold to consumer, All you do is fill the channel with what you offer the retail/distribution stores and then count that as sold, since they will obviously run out before refilling more orders.

 

[Glonk]

Yep.
He'll head up Sales & Marketing of the "Entertainment and Home" division (Xbox is the major part of that)

 

[Qroach]

Holy smokes, that's why he left sega... so where did you hear this?

 

[Glonk]

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/Jan03/01-20MooreV2PR.asp

He'll handle the Euro/Japan markets only