16 pipes for R420 too?

I really don't see Grantsdale as much of a catalyst for game developers. IMHO it's low end add-in boards which define the baseline for games developers, not integrated. I don't doubt that some developers of games which are not heavily focused on visual quality will take their lead from the DX9 capabilites of the Grantsdale GPU, but i wouldn't think that the sort of games we mostly care about around here it will be terribly critical.

If it's proof you need that Intel integrated is pretty much entirely irrelevant, take a peak at this page in which Valve have surveyed 1,000,000 gamers who play games via steam (and given the HL1 game engine do not necessarily need a high spec machine). Intel integrated adds up to around 5% of the market. Given that it wiil take a fair amount of time for Grantsdale to become widespread, I really don't think it will have any influence on most game developers. Of course, it's a different matter for Microsoft in terms of building the Longhorn GUI.

http://steampowered.com/status/survey.html

 

Good lord, you are being a sad little puppy today aren’t you. Again, 5200 does not have the market presence to shift the industry up alone. Regardless of performance when the majority of integrated graphics shift to DX9 and they have a good total installed user base that’s when DX9 / HLSL can be targeted as the base line.

What? I have not made any performance claims over Grantsdale, and I’ve further said that I believe 5200 will probably be faster for DX9 applications. I did not agree to Grantsdale performing better than 5200.

Do Intels solutions perform well at the moment? No, they are horrible, but developers still target them to make them run. And they aren’t doing so with Single texturing DX5/6 codepaths.

 

Dave....it's like talking to a brick wall........ he can't see past his own personal bias to look at the whole picture....... Yet he firmly believes he is impartial and can't understand when others view him as biased.

 

I completely disagree with you here. I think if you go into most offices which have integrated video you will find a game or two installed on most of the computers. That has been what I've seen in my experiences working in different offices anyway.

As of 1 month ago I no longer work in an office setting, but the case is still the same. I now work in an auto dealership and of the 20 or so pc's we have all of them have integrated video. All of them have games on them. Nascar Racing 2002 is the favorite at the moment, followed closely by Tiger Woods and Microsoft Links.

Just because a computer is used in an office environment don't write it off as a machine that won't have games on it. At least here in the U.S. workers do tend to goof off. Playing games on their business P.C.'s is just another way they do that.

 

The Valve survey is indeed very interesting. Because the Half Life (and MODs) community uses Geforce 4 MX the most. So in essence, we can talk all about DX9 and PS2.0, but in reality the market for Valve is very small compared to DX8/7 cards.

 

I'll go out on a limb and say that I think he is not biased. He seems to be making a clear point, and Dave wants to swat at him for whatever reason.

I would argue that the majority of sold integrated gfx chipsets arent used for what we perceive as the "gaming market".

 

Well, for one, he's not actually read what I've posted and has managed to misconstrue quite a lot of it.

Of course they are not. But then publishers like to maximise their target market in a lot of titles where they can.

 

Well, I think we can all debate the integrated vid issue without getting personal. Worst comes to worse, we all have to agree to disagree - no lives need be lost.

 

Lovely how people put words into your mouth ins't it?
I never said I never sell integrated graphics. In fact I sell quite a few nForce based systems with integrated graphics. nForce graphics capabilities are way ahead of a vanta's (haven't sold a vanta for years, thats merely the least powerful card I've ever used in a client machine. As a general rule though, I prefer to use a standalone GF4MX or perhaps 5200 simply because these offer very cheap VIVO capabilities which most ordinary people appreciate more than 3D graphics capabilities (people love to play with home movies and VIVO is a good way to get more out of your camcorder without buying a new digital one).

As tp what I sell people: I sell systems that are capableof being fully upgraded to do anything the client may desire (within the limitations of the format eg Socket A).

As for developers having to target integrated graphics as lame as what Intel, SiS and VIA produce - IMO thats what software rendering DX6/7 codepaths is for.

 

When someone is vauge, people guess what they mean, happens all the time.

Anyway, since the discussion had been about intel's integrated graphics, I thought that you'd understand I was still talking about intel's integrated graphics, because I'm lazy and didn't want to type intel's integrated graphics every time I mentioned integrated graphics.

 

Enlighten me please: how exactly was the post of mine you originally quoted vague??? Your full of crap.

 

OK, this thread is so off course it's ended up on Gilligan's Island.