For those in the industry...

[Fafalada]

What is anyones experience with using a non-gaming related software development job as a stepping stone towards something in the industry?

Actual production programming experience is always a plus - I am generally vary of people fresh out of Uni because vast majority have to pass through adaptation period before they actually become useful. And for some, that can be a lifetime.
Obviously it's not comparable to actual game industry experience though, and if you've only did non-game stuff before, the interviewers will likely grill you harder to prove you are capable of switching fields.

 

[Diamond.G]

Out of sheer curiosity, do you guys have system administrators? Or do you guys to the maintenance on your systems yourselves? Also do you guys have to have clearances? If someone had a clearance and wanted to work with you guys what happens to their clearance?

 

[archangelmorph]

As an aside, I actually leave my degrees OFF of my resume unless a position specifically calls for me to show it, and then I use me least geeky/intimidating one.

Wow thats a great idea..!!


If you WANT to get under-paid...

 

[ban25]

I don't know how it is at other companies, but ours is pretty demanding when it comes to interviewing candidates. When I first interviewed, it was an all day affair. We have been interviewing for several different positions over the past few months and the standards are very high. Previous game experience is very valuable for senior level positions, but it's not always necessary for those looking for entry level positions. One of the best programmers on my team is actually straight out of college, and we also have a director who was hired right out of school (years ago). What's most important is someone who's very bright, skilled, and highly motivated.

Another thing I can't emphasize enough is interview technique. You need to know how to write a good resume and interview properly. An outgoing personality is a big help so long as you aren't overbearing. I've interviewed several people I would have loved to hire strictly based on their test scores, but wasn't able to because they bombed the interview so badly.

 

[ERP]

how did you land your job?

I still have a lot of college to go through (looking at two engineering degrees and an MBA) so I have a lot of time to worry about getting a job, but I was interested in how some of the devs here got into the industry.

I wrote my first published game when I was 16, I took a few years off went to university, then turned down a hob in the aerospace industry, to work for myself. When my bank manager refused to extend my overdraft any further I applied for games jobs locally. But I already had a lot of experience before I ever worked for anyone else in the industry.

Back then though it was close to impossible to get a job in the industry without having already written a game.

We hire a lot of people straight out of college here now, motivation and anything that will set you apart are what you need. Having your own demos, or little games you've written on your own time can swing things in your favor.

 

[nAo]

I've interviewed several people I would have loved to hire strictly based on their test scores, but wasn't able to because they bombed the interview so badly.

artists? programmers? managers?

 

[ban25]

artists? programmers? managers?

Programmers

 

[ShootMyMonkey]

how did you land your job?

I still have a lot of college to go through (looking at two engineering degrees and an MBA) so I have a lot of time to worry about getting a job, but I was interested in how some of the devs here got into the industry.

I mainly got into programming when I was around 5 years old or so, and started tweaking around with a punch card-driven machine built by some local university students (where my grandfather was a professor). I did the demoscene thing for a while and wrote up minor tutorials here and there among other things.

Through the course of college, I spent far more time on research projects like aEmber and HDRIE as well as my own side projects than on coursework, so my GPA suffered for it, but that research work was more valuable and served to be a better learning experience anyway.

Coming out of school, I was dead on with the big economic crash that caused every company in the country to go through layoff cycles, so I was in the odd contract job outside of gaming for a while... I also went through some pretty crappy and low-paying jobs when I first got in the industry (and these tended to be small studios where the competition wasn't so stiff -- and when I went through interviewing various people, I realized just how not stiff it was), but I mainly used them to gain experience and it was rather convenient that because they were so small, I was sort of thrust into responsibilities. Of course, with each of these jobs came the fact that the companies would also run into financial troubles. In any case, by the time I was looking around for my current job, I was doing well enough in interviews that I had multiple offers and here I am now.

I've interviewed several people I would have loved to hire strictly based on their test scores, but wasn't able to because they bombed the interview so badly.

I definitely got that from a lot of people who went to certain trade schools. Some are better than others by far, but some just seemed to have this scary lack of theoretical background and just more pure book memorization. But then there are those that just befuddle me sometimes that were largely attributable to the nature of what is taught in ordinary public universities in those areas -- I really don't know what the hell kind of schooling allows people to finish a Bachelor's in CS and not know what a vector is.

 

[Barbarian]

Game development experience is not strictly necessary. I did a fair bit of interviewing senior level candidates lately, and I have to say sometimes tons of shipped games in a resume can also be a red flag. It's shocking to see people with 10+ years of alleged gamedev experience fail most basic programming questions.
A candidate with no previous game experience can definitely improve their chances if they show solid understanding (and/or passion) in at least one or more areas such as math, data structures, physics, C and C++, low level processor knowledge, various programming languages etc.
And like others already pointed out, it's very important that one appears to be easy going and in general as someone that would be a good team player.

 

[ban25]

Game development experience is not strictly necessary. I did a fair bit of interviewing senior level candidates lately, and I have to say sometimes tons of shipped games in a resume can also be a red flag. It's shocking to see people with 10+ years of alleged gamedev experience fail most basic programming questions.

Agreed. We've interviewed candidates with laundry lists of shipped games, but no more than 6-months on any given project or studio, and it throws up a red flag. To some extent, that's the nature of the games industry, but when hiring for a senior level position that involves a relo and energy from the rest of the team to get someone up to speed, you don't want a person who's just going to get in and out on a single project.

 

[T Ghost]

Does anybody here has experience in the non-programming, non-artist part of game design?

Any level designer and game designer story?

 

[Graham]

Slightly tangential...

Getting your feet wet in the mod world can be useful. However proceed with great caution. The first rule of thumb is that things will generally take 6x longer than you expect or are told, and everyone you work with will be an emotional timebomb.

Mod work allows you some freedom to explore different areas of making a game, and is a great preparation for how people can backstab and generally screw everything up in amazingly short timeframes.

Personally I've been involved with only one mod on a major level (2+ years), however doing so I produced 6 maps, a few crummy models, loads of milkshape animations, character skins, UIs, sounds, websites, art, even PR (which I suck at)... I eventually ended up leading the mod for a good period of time. Of course it all exploded spectacularly because some members got into a fight about bugger all of nothing - which lasted the better part of 12 months.
All this teaches you a lot about managing people, which at the end of the day is what making games is about. Even as a junior programmer or an artist you still need this ability for yourself. The higher up the food chain the more important it gets.

The problem is everyone wants to be the designer, and no one wants to follow someone else's design. The biggest problems I faced while attempting to bring that mod under control were trying to standardise things and (*shock horror*) setting deadlines and stopping feature creep. Unfortunately I failed quite badly here - although in hindsight there wasn't much I could have done. This is the trouble with large teams who are basically working for their own fun and enjoyment.

Of course I myself am very guilty of exactly this - I quit a certain mod before it reached it's first alpha, because I thought it should have been more objective-based (and I wasn't very good then). Shame...
Ohh and because goose' wasn't responding to my emails either.

Only other piece of advice, if someone approaches you to work in a mod or similar project, be cautious. Ask questions. Lots. If they refuse to answer some, or simply can't, forget it. If they claim they will have something, ask them how it will be done. If someone says they will use it as a demo to get funding for a full project, run like hell. I've had this last one happen maybe 4 times, and everytime it just explodes in in a way that is both utterly depressing and utterly pathetic.
The last time this happened, someone came to me wanting asking me to work on a Quidditch (sp?) mod for a UT based game. On completion it would then land them a deal with EA, which would allow then to form a studio, which then they could license UE3 to make the full game. All within 12 months. This guy is late 30s, *really* intelligent and I respect him totally - yet couldn't see any fault in his plan.

Now. That said, you do learn from it, and that can be very useful

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The problem is everyone wants to be the designer, and no one wants to follow someone else's design. The biggest problems I faced while attempting to bring that mod under control were trying to standardise things and (*shock horror*) setting deadlines and stopping feature creep. Unfortunately I failed quite badly here - although in hindsight there wasn't much I could have done. This is the trouble with large teams who are basically working for their own fun and enjoyment.

This is the major trouble with homebrew. With no financial incentive, there's no influence to manage people with. That's why most homebrew is a buggy mess that never really gets sorted, and the world abounds with <1.0 version number software. If you want to get started on development, go it alone. Don't be dependent on anyone else. Not even mates, unless you have a really strong working relationship, because nagging friends to do work they don't want to do any more is no joy. This can make creating a product hard, as you need to try GUI design, audio, graphics and animation, etc. and there's not many people in the world who can do everything.

 

[corysama]

Just a quick note about the no experience=no job=no experience catch-22:

Internships are the backdoor. Complete an internship then apply for a full-time position at the same company. Work start-to-finish on at least one title there and you officially have experience that can carry you to another company.

Worked for me.

 

[T Ghost]

Looks like no game designers at all around here, just game programmers....

 

[MrWibble]

In 1993, went to the (last?) Amiga developer conference in Orlando, Florida.

Hehe... I've still got the folder of the proceedings (with all the AAA info) sat on my shelf (not too far away from my Vic20 reference manual!)

How did I get into the industry? A combination of accident and perseverance..

 

[Chris123234]

I plan on doing the CS/EE dual major from TTU with a minor in physics. Is this a good combination of degrees? My goal is making games but I picked the dual major so I could always work in other programming/engineering industries if I had to.

 

[Frank]

If they like you as a person, and you're more or less what they're looking for, they'll hire you.

That's about it.

 

[ShootMyMonkey]

Just a quick note about the no experience=no job=no experience catch-22:

Internships are the backdoor. Complete an internship then apply for a full-time position at the same company. Work start-to-finish on at least one title there and you officially have experience that can carry you to another company.

Internships as well as contract positions on game teams are a little easier to find nowadays, though it wasn't that long ago that internships and contract jobs were extreme rarities and very few companies actually bothered with it.

For most people I know, myself included, they got their first job in the industry for pretty much the reason that Frank posted. And in many cases, that first job is either at a really small studio which is having a hard time finding talent, or a very large one that doesn't mind having a collection of junior staff.

 

[ban25]

Internships as well as contract positions on game teams are a little easier to find nowadays, though it wasn't that long ago that internships and contract jobs were extreme rarities and very few companies actually bothered with it.

Can't believe I forgot to mention internships. Internships that do well almost always lead to full time positions.