The Official RV630/RV610 Rumours & Speculation Thread

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INKster said:
Not a chance, unless they want to be at a price vs cost disadvantage in the near future.
128bit only, i guess.
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Well we can't stay in the 128bit relm with the mid range cards forever you know? One of the players is going to have to up that bus some point in time?:p

Sure ATi would be at a cost disadvantage, but what about performance? power(65nm)?, possible IQ? and can the cost disadvantage be that bad?
 
Sound_Card said:
Well we can't stay in the 128bit relm with the mid range cards forever you know? One of the players is going to have to up that bus some point in time?:p

Sure ATi would be at a cost disadvantage, but what about performance? power(65nm)?, possible IQ? and can the cost disadvantage be that bad?
Click to expand...

Larger bus = more layers on the PCB = more memory chips needed.

It's not just a case of increasing performance, which can be done by upping the memory clock.
The 8600 GTS could very well be upgraded in the near future with 2.4 GHz memory, much like some late 80nm 7600 GT's had 1.8 GHz chips, in place of the usual 1.4 GHz ones.
 
Sound_Card said:
So what would explain the move to 512bit?
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The range of performance from bottom to top is growing, just like the price differential.

Also enthusiast cards are the ones where bandwidth burning ultra-IQ options are considered the norm.

Jawed
 
Well most of the reactions to today's 8600 GTS reviews would suggest that bandwidth efficiency hasn't improved to the extent that gamers on a mid-range budget would have liked.

And though I don't expect it to happen, I can also see where AMD could have scored big in retail mindshare with a 65nm 256-bit offering in the $250 price range.
 
kemosabe said:
Well most of the reactions to today's 8600 GTS reviews would suggest that bandwidth efficiency hasn't improved to the extent that gamers on a mid-range budget would have liked.

And though I don't expect it to happen, I can also see where AMD could have scored big in retail mindshare with a 65nm 256-bit offering in the $250 price range.
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My thoughts exactly!!

I see golden opportunity from AMD, and a potential weakness from Nvidia. It would be most sad if they did not come thru with a 256bit offering to exploit this weakness!!
 
Maybe the better question is: what would stop either AMD or NVIDIA from coming out with a solution with 256 bit bus? It's not like AMD is the only one who has an opportunity to fill a price point at $250, and it's not like AMD doesn't have 128 bit cards lined up for the RV series either.
 
jimmyjames123 said:
Maybe the better question is: what would stop either AMD or NVIDIA from coming out with a solution with 256 bit bus? It's not like AMD is the only one who has an opportunity to fill a price point at $250, and it's not like AMD doesn't have 128 bit cards lined up for the RV series either.
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Of course AMD has a 128bit cards lined up. I would hope...

FYI their has already been 256bit cards for $250 and less. The qustion is rather, will AMD strike against the 8600 with a 256bit card for a similar price or less?
 
kemosabe said:
though I don't expect it to happen, I can also see where AMD could have scored big in retail mindshare with a 65nm 256-bit offering in the $250 price range.
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I expect it to happen, and reckon I'm not alone.

I agree, a 256-bit part priced/performing between 86gts-RV630XT and G80/R600 with 512MB high-clocked GDDR3 (or reasonably-priced GDDR4) would be a sweet spot, and expect it to come with RV670, if not a R600GT(O).
 
What I meant is that I don't expect it to happen imminently (i.e. at the R(V)6xx family launch), which is a shame because RV570 is a perfect example of a GPU that hit the sweet spot but arrived many moons too late. From a business standpoint I can understand that OEMs get top priority with the 64/128-bit chips, but you're not going to get many accolades when you consistently release the price/performance winner of your lineup just before the next generation launches. It'll be interesting to see how RV630 will compare to G84, but ATI/AMD has been trailing in this important segment since the GF4 Ti 4200 era. Tough lesson to learn, I suppose. :smile:
 
Sound_Card said:
Of course AMD has a 128bit cards lined up. I would hope...

FYI their has already been 256bit cards for $250 and less. The qustion is rather, will AMD strike against the 8600 with a 256bit card for a similar price or less?
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Ok, put two and two together. You acknowledge that AMD has 128 bit cards lined up. Do you seriously think that they will not be competing with the NVIDIA 128 bit cards when it comes to street pricing? :D
 
jimmyjames123 said:
Ok, put two and two together. You acknowledge that AMD has 128 bit cards lined up. Do you seriously think that they will not be competing with the NVIDIA 128 bit cards when it comes to street pricing? :D
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The 128bit card in my mind is the RV610, not RV630.

One must also consider that one is on 65nm and the competitor is on 80nm. So would not they have a cost advantage in that front? Hell they have 256bit cards priced lower as of right now!
 
Cost of a chip is not directly tied to 65nm vs 80nm, obviously. There are other factors that are involved, and it's impossible to say what advantage (if any) the RV series would have against G84/86 based on process alone. Remember that NV never had any apparent cost advantage with their 5800/5900 cards in comparison to 9700 Pro that was on a different manufacturing process.

What is "in your mind" is all well and good, but you really can't assume anything until AMD's RV cards are actually out on the market. If they release a DX10 256 bit card, NV is not going to sit around and price their DX10 128 bit cards the same just to get soundly outperformed by their competition. Theoretically NV could one up that with a 320 bit bus variant anyway. Their new architecture just seems to be pretty flexible with respect to different card configurations.

The reason older cards with 256 bit bus are being sold for relatively cheap now is because they are, for lack of a better word, old :D Due to things like excess inventory, and/or outdated feature set, etc, there is no way that vendors can get away with pricing these cards anywhere near MSRP now that next gen cards are here with more to come on it's way.
 
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Sound_Card said:
The 128bit card in my mind is the RV610, not RV630.

One must also consider that one is on 65nm and the competitor is on 80nm. So would not they have a cost advantage in that front? Hell they have 256bit cards priced lower as of right now!
Click to expand...

FX5900 XT (256bit) -> 6600 GT (128bit)
6800 GS (256bit) -> 7600 GT (128bit)

It's only natural that the newest product is launched at a higher price point than its direct predecessor, but then a 128bit card can get quite a bit lower, in time. They simply cost less to make, hence the margin can be easily manipulated.
Just look at current 7600 GT prices. They too were launched within the 199~249 dollar window, back in March of last year.
 
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